Exception: I'd probably buy a custom frame without a test ride.

I did. All good. :thumb:

There is something to this.

Anyone that makes that particular request probably did so because they already knew what it was (i.e. they didn't need the test ride). And if they don't know what it is, a test ride is not the best way to introduce them to such a piece of equipment. But at the low end, it still seems a good way to introduce customers to major differences between bikes.

The same rule won't apply in all situations. It's not particularly hard to imagine how a given road bike will behave if you're given adequate information. Performance 'bents are another matter entirely though as the characteristics vary drastically. But people shouldn't ride those unless they've been on something sufficiently similar -- otherwise the chances of crashing are too high.

I know at least one exception to this. This person had been riding steel and aluminum for a very long time, and frequently did double centuries and Furnace Creek or Hoodoo in teams, and was planning to do both of those events solo in the next few years. He was interested in trying carbon and titanium (and also considered custom steel by Serrotta), having heard so much praise for the ride quality but also hearing some people say carbon was stiff and harsh. He rode 40-60 miles in the local mountains on a titanium Moots, a demo Serrotta, and a carbon Scott. He ended up choosing the Scott and paid for some component swaps.

As RoadWarrior states, this is probably the rare exception, but I don't know if any shop would have convinced him to pay $4000+ on a material unfamiliar to him without letting him see what it really could do first.

When we measure we are using the leg length and the total height, running a ratio between those and then the program we have gives us the exact top tube that the rider needs. It then uses that number and looks at a database of all our road frames and seeks the bikes with top tubes that are within 2 mm of that exact number and also tells us what stem is required to set up the top of the bike. Sometimes, given people that are well out of the bell curve I can end up with zero bikes. Then we can fiddle with the parameters to bring in a bike...and obviously the further out a rider's dimensions get from what each manufacturer perceives as their ideal rider size, the closer they get to needing custom manufacturing.

Example....a large TCR Advanced has a 58.5 top tube and a Defy a 57.5 top tube.

A Madone 4 has a 59.8 top tube, a Madone 5 a 58.6 in a 60.

A Cannondale Super Six in a 60 has a top tube of 59, and in the Synapse (since they only make the 61, no 60 in that bike) a 60 top tube.

Point is that if a rider says they want a more relaxed geometry, that may not work, or if they have their heart set on a Giant, another manufacturer might work better. Short legged, long torso folks will generally ride a different size than a person with thhe exact same height, but with long legs and a short torso. We figure that out ahead of time and it's a ton better than pulling a dowl into your crotch and measuring with a tape measure.

I am able to figure out what you need in frame top tube and also in stem. In my case I ride a 60 cm Super Six with a 130mm stem and need a big reach on top of that to get the bike properly set up (long forearms and while I could go with a longer stem, I like the bars to do that sizing as it's closer to exact). I also like ergo bars with the flat spot in the drop and a nice extension off of that with a good amount of drop. Deda Newtons are my bars.

There's differences and given the parameters we set up for what comes up based on the rider's dimensions, it works like a charm. The rider can come back and use a credit towards a fitting, and we offer three and the vast majority of riders take advantage of one of the three. If you ride after that and get pain, you can come back. But that hardly ever happens.

+1 :)

btw, this whole thread is incredibly civilized...

Agreed. I'd like to thank everyone here for being open minded and keeping the disagreements respectful.

I completely understand. I've worked in shops as well, and fit plenty of people. I've also done a lot of watching people ride, but really it's a lot easier to make those adjustments on the trainer IMO. I don't know if I am an outlier or not, but speaking only for myself I have owned enough bikes and played around with fit enough to pretty much know what will work for me, unless I'm buying a totally new kind of bike.

The other factor is that fit is not static. What someone wants and can do changes with their use and fitness and experience, as well as just preference.