markwebb

My how times change. In a recent, sometimes heated (the mods had to close the thread) debate that had really nothing to do with the original threads intentions, there was much discussion about steerer tube lengths on an aluminum or steel 1 1/8 steerer tube. I had asked the retailer of my new bike - Competitive Cyclist (great guys BTW) - to keep steerer as long as possible while maintaing safety. Which they did. When positing pics of bike I got a lot of recommendations that it was too long for safety. So I did some additional research.

A few years ago our friend Sheldon Brown RIP wrote an article about this very subject. He even responded to questions about steerer tube lengths on these very forums with the very same advice, and pointed readers to the article.

In the article he said : If you are buying a new fork, or a new frame, you can leave the steerer full length even if you ride a smaller frame. This will let you get the stem nice and high without needing any extra accessories.

Why? His rationale was thus: Much of bicycle design is driven by the needs of racing cyclists--even though the vast majority of cyclists are not racers. Racing styles and positions are not necessarily suited to the needs of the touring cyclist. Newer road bikes tend to have longer top tubes and to be sized smaller than was common a few years back. This is good for the racer who is looking for the fastest, most aerodynamic position, or for the weekend athlete out for a brisk high-intensity workout, but is less good for the long distance rider who is likely to spend more time in the saddle.

Racers aim for the holy grail of the "flat back." The racers' high-intensity, high-gear pedaling style allows the reaction forces from their leg work to hold their upper body in position, even when leaning very far forward. Indeed, in a hard sprint, the rider is actually pulling upward on the bars! This intense riding style, however, is not sustainable for long hours in the saddle.

A touring cyclist rides longer, but with less intense pedaling effort. A long-distance rider is not seeking speed, but endurance, and will generally tend to avoid extreme effort, so as to not waste physical resources. Thus, the touring cyclist is likely to seek a more upright posture. As cyclists age, their position preferences also are likely to change.

Similarly, a casual recreational cyclist, or beginner cyclist is not likely to be comfortable with a low handlebar position.

Achieving a comfortable position will often involve substituting a different handlebar stem, move the handlebars higher up or closer to the saddle, or both.

Whe you look at his pictures referenced you can see a very tall steerer tube - considerably taller than what CC left me.

So is much of the current advice about cutting the steerer tube down on even an aluminum or steel tube for safety purposes really good advice, or just spawned by the prevailing racer attitude and needs, ignoring the need for a lot of roadies seeking comfort over speed, and really no safety concerns. Making many roadies suffer needlessly in an uncomfortable aero position when riding, not racing?

I'm interested in a civil discussion and would like to not have this thread closed lol. I think this is a legit topic of discussion and may highlight how we might overlook comfort just to achieve racing form, even if we're not racing

Let me know whatcha think. Play nice, if possible.

BTW here is link to Sheldon's full article https://sheldonbrown.com/handsup.html

sbxx1985 

Much of the concern in the earlier thread was based upon the belief the steerer was carbon. With a carbon steerer and your stack of spacers, it could have been dangerous.

topflightpro

To slightly echo what SBXX said, many manufacturers have recommendations on steertube length.

The general consensus is that there should be no more than 40mm of spacers between the top of the headset topcap and bottom of the stem. IIRC, it looked as though you had more than 40mm of spacers and I don't recall seeing a spacer above the stem.

Competitive Cyclist may have cut the steerer long enough to allow 40 below, plus one spacer above the stem - which again is the general practice with carbon steertubes (though the last Specialized I built up said not to put spacers above the stem.)

merlinextraligh

That's surprising. The general advice is that you want a small spacer above the stem. This allows the clamping portion of the stem to be fully on the steerer tube, and have the top of the stack still above steerer, so the top cap can work to preload the bearings.

So a 2mm-5mm spacer on top makes sense.

What they may not want is a larger spacer on top, particularly if there's a sleeve glued into the steerer tube. Doing that can put the clamping portion of the stem below the point where the sleeve is, which presumably gives a little reinforcement to the steerer.

mmmdonuts

The limit is what the manufacturer states it should be. Period. End of discussion. Different manufacturers have their own limits for each of the materials, tubing size, and even fork models they produce. If you leave it too long and it breaks then you have no recourse. Some people have a rule of thumb for steerer tube length and as long as it's within mfg limits then it's all good.

Commodus

You keep saying things like "I'm not sure if it's steel..." or "aluminum, or steel steerer..."

There is a really huge difference. On a steel steerer, I'd be happy to leave it any height you like. Aluminum? Well...I'd want to have a look at what the manufacturer has to say if I for some reason wanted to go really high. Carbon? I would not buy a fork with a carbon steer tube unless I was running it pretty damn low.

Sheldon is the man, but notice he is careful to point out that this advice does not apply to carbon or 1" steerers. I would add a further caveat regarding aluminum steerers, precisely because we don't know how similar the wall thickness is across various brands of forks. It's been a while since I've really looked at his site, but I don't remember seeing too many carbon sport bikes in his stable. His experience - and that's all he's offering here - is not really relevant to the bike in question.

Let's also recall that we're talking about a Chinese factory here that does not say 'Litespeed' out front. The fork you were supplied may or may not suit the purpose to which you are putting it.

monkeyevil

Maybe a flat bar road bike, touring bars, or something else would be better for those that need extreme bar height. It gets to a point where it's even less comfortable to be on the hoods when everything is so high. My relaxed fit Felt (Z series) came with a ton of spacers under a stem pointing up. As I lose the belly I keep dropping the bars and every time it feels more comfortable instead of less.

Elvo

Yeah I think those who need a comfort bike should buy a comfort bike. I think the Litespeed M1 was meant for fitness/racing and there are many other bikes with longer headtubes to accomodate more relaxed geometries.

sbxx1985 

badbikemechanic should be here shortly to provide his valuable insight.

RJM

Why wouldn't higher drop bars work? There is no reason why someone has to ride with their handlebars lower than the saddle, in fact having higher bars would allow the person who is not as flexible to use every part of the bar for different hand positions. Different strokes for different folks.

Define comfort bike.

Elvo

Roubaix, Z, Synapse, RS, Defy, etc

ScoJo

+1 on the comfort bike. It doesn't seem necessary to run that tall of a stack anymore. I wanted a higher handlebar position because I'm old and out of shape and not looking to race. I bought a CR1. At my frame size (58) the head tube is at 196 mm. The Roubaix is even taller at 225. A similar M1 is only at 180.

motobecane69

fair enough but most people consider a "comfort bike" to be a front suspension steel framed flat bar 35lb bike, basically an entry level mtb with road tires stock.

To the op, you have the right to ride your bike however you want to ride it, but the point is that you probably would have been better served buying a bike with a different geometry and setup altogether. A great deal is only a great deal if the bike actual fits you (not saying it doesn't, just making a general statement) Of course I do realize that the Litespeed deal being offered by CC was a very very good price. I would be buying one if they had the offer in larger sizes.

urbanknight

If it came with a shim adjustable stem like my Allez did, you almost can't put a spacer on top. Because the shim angles the stem, you have to cap it with their special oval shaped cap. A round spacer doesn't sit right between the angled stem and that cap. I know this because I tried before smacking my head and remembering high school geometry "when you dissect a cylinder at an angle, you get an oval".

Of course, my Allez has an aluminum steerer, so I'm not concerned.

mpath

Now you're just baiting...

Back to the OP though, some people tend to loosely use the term "roadie" as anyone who rides a road bike. Perhaps it's simply a matter of semantics, or pehaps not, but as I runner I distinguish myself from merely "joggers". I dare say some who consider themselves as "roadies" will frown upon being lumped with mere cyclists, bicyclists, bikers, commuters, and the like. Bit of snobbery, no doubt; but some roadies, with no intent of ever racing, will want to slam that stem as is practicable, and all others with tall/tallish stems relegated to the non-roadie categories. Just my IMHO.

RJM

Welcome to the land of roadie snobbishness OP.

bobonker

I'm pretty sure this steerer isn't carbon. Seen on organized ride earlier this year.

(click to enlarge)


Bob

ColinL

I would call those endurance road bikes. The manufacturers and many others do as well.

Young Version

We don't? The forks have to fit the same star nuts and the same stems, so the ID and OD of the steerer tube are both constrained.

I don't actually have a dog in this fight (I have one 5mm spacer on top of my stem and none beneath), but I don't see aluminum steerers becoming unsafe unless they're a) REALLY tall or b) have significant scoring or gouging.

Commodus

Hmm yeah that is a good point. I was looking at the ID, and seeing it more from a quality control standpoint, but surely they can't be too far off, for the reason you mention.

Seattle Forrest

Really? I have 15 or 20 mm of spacers above my stem. I had the shop cut the steering tube as high as safety would allow, since I haven't got that part of the fit down yet. They said it wouldn't be a problem. ( On a carbon fork and steerer. )

Should I be concerned?

717200

Just checked my Izoard build also from CC, 30mm spacers on bottom and 5mm on top, to the op I think you have an aluminum steerer with a carbon fork if I remember correctly when I was looking at these two bikes.

revchuck 

When I replaced my 58cm CAAD9 frameset, I looked for a replacement with a taller headtube than the 175mm one (with lotsa spacers and a funky adjustable stem) on the Cannondale; ended up with a 61cm Specialized Allez Comp with a 235mm HT. The headtube on my 61cm Look 585 Optimum is 215mm with 30mm of spacers below the bars. There are a bunch of good deals I passed up because I needed a tall head tube. My back thanks me on every ride.

merlinextraligh

i don't think there's a big reason to be concerned, but it's not within spec of some forks, that use the glued in sleeve system. IIRC Cdale says not to do that with their forks.

mmmdonuts

Star nuts can handle the slight difference in ID. My fork has a thin wall steel tube about half the thickness of aluminum. I think the star nut is the same one that would be used with an aluminum tube.