I say the more the merrier if it works. I want 15-150 gear inches and <10% jumps between gears. Do I need all of that? No. But I would sure use it.

I've used vintage 2x5, 3x7, 2x9 shimano, 2x10 shimano,2x10 campy, 2x11 campy, 1x14 rohloff, all at length. Personally my favourite is the 11sp. I do appreciate that extra gear. We are like motors in that we all have our own optimum rpm, and much like a car, we work better when in our optimum gear. Now for some of us, 2x5 is all you're going to need.

But you can't then generalise and catagorically state that it's all anyone could ever need. More gears are not necessarily a bad thing or simply a gimmick to make you buy more schwag (they could start making 2x5 groupsets for weight weenies and still sell it!).

Just like more gears are more efficient for a car, they are for us too. Or at least, they can be.

FWIW I ride 11sp but the single speed I have gets the most use

Obviously it is required to have as many useable and desireable gears as possible, Braden, but that doesn't mean I would like to have a car with 37 gears, does it?
More isn't always better because it overcomplicates and is more likely prone to al kinds of mechanical problems.
So ... that said ... there must be some kind of equilibrium ... some amount of gears that is enough to need and use and not too much to be unnecessarily complicated.

Personally ... I believe that 8 was enough ... 9 was just great and 10 is fantastic with small jumps between gears.
Would I go for 11? Not if it's heavier or more expensive ... because I don't see any use for that extra gear.

One more competitor in the groupset industry won't hurt my feelings no matter how many gears they're trying to shove on a cassette.

Have you ever ridden Di2?
Do you race?

why not remove the FD, have a 11-20 cassette in the back with an internal hub 3 speed gear ?

Interestly cars are getting more gears. 50 years ago, 3 speeds were common for automatics as well as manuals. Over the years, manuals have gone from 3 to 4 to 5, to 6 gears.

Now, many automatics have gone to 8 speeds, for the purpose of increasing fuel mileage.

My work truck has 18 speeds. Thats what you need when your power is only from 1500 to 1800 rpm.

I definitely notice the difference between my 8 spd and 10 spd bikes.

Any pics of the stuff around yet?

Love that we're getting more people making groups. For the longest time it seemed like it was just Shimano and Campy. Now we have Sram, Microshift, and KCNC? Kewl.

youguys are luddites
in 20 years there will be 14 or 15 speed cassettes and everyone will love them.
or, we'll all be dead.
One or the other.

I have noted in all threads in which I mock Di2 that I do not race. If it only has redeeming qualities in a racing environment, all mention of this ridiculous experiment in cycling should be confined to the 33. This is the 41, where we just ride bikes.

I don't need to ride it to know how it works. If you think riding it will make me go out and take a 401k loan to purchase it, you are sorely mistaken.

One of the guys I ride with regularly has D2I. It seems to work well. I wouldn't get it because it's expensive and heavy but if it was expensive and significantly lighter than cables I'd consider it.

I dont' think the KCNC system uses 135mm axles but I don't know that for sure. The big advantage of 135 is less wheel dish, but taking that and then using the extra 5mm for cogs and keeping the same dish would negate that advantage. And would prevent its been retrofitted to existing bikes, seriously limiting its market.

Tiso shows a prototype electronic 12sp:
https://www.bikerumor.com/2011/09/29/...sette-pulleys/

Some of the current Tiso stuff looks pretty: https://www.tisobike.com/

It's amazing to me how proponents of Di2 have struggled for years (in this forum) to get the lightest for the least. Di2 flies in the face of that and everyone is having an orgasm over it. I bet Di2 users also told Netflix, "60% increase? May I please pay another 40% to make it an even 100%?"

Yeah, racers never just ride. They just race around everywhere.

If Di2 isn't for you, then so be it. Why you would mock something that isn't for you, something you have never even tried, well I don't get that.

Such is the mystery that is the 41.

'retrofit hasn;t really been an issue since 120 rears... we went to 126 without evena grumble, and then 130 was a shoe-in - 135, inevitable... IMO

the TISO stuff looks trick, a lot will depend on the chain... but without going to a wider rear, fitting it all on the current freehub meaning way tighter spacing, of course.
This might all be nicely achieveable in a shop, but take it out on the road, on a 100 miles wet ride and things will change.
ever notice how quickly shifting gets more notchy and less positive as the chain gets dirty, dry or mucked from the lube picking up moisture and getting caked up?
Right now the one thing I notice about 10 spd is that caking on the chain, or dried crud, really degrades shifting quite a bit - hence my move to WD cleaning every other ride (when dry) and no 'lube' - I use WD for shortterm lubing with less chance of the chain getting caked with crud. Right now I give the chain a quick blast of WD almost every ride, quick solid wipe and everything runs great, every ride.
With the precision spacing needed for 12 spd on a 130, I would expect shifting to degrade even faster and be more evident.
Then there's the question of materials engineering and the inevitable cost of the materials and precision manufacturing, and then cog/chain longevity. Prolly less of a concern for the 'pro' scene and the small element who find a $250 to $500 cassette and a $200 chain, reasonable.
THen when you do that to the rear, the crankset/chainrings will certainly have to be re-engineered... $1K+ for a basic double ???
Would the market be big enough?
certainly would produce some trickle-down
IMO 135 offers a broad move to the entire marketplace. More space, less problems in giveing a broad range of 'Ace-Ultegra-105' type gruppos, and another reason for all of us to drop more dosh on a new frame, and of course the new wheelset and then all the goodies to make it a garagedoor photo-op.