At first, I believed that the whole concept behind a bicycle frame made of carbon fibers was a complete and utter joke. This was back in the early eighties before most Americans really seriously considered the idea.

I then began to hear about CF tubes being joined with steel and aluminum lugs. They didn't appear to have too much success with that idea. Next, I began to hear about a company from Northern California called, Kestrel. Kestrel was supposed to have come up with the idea that bicycle frames could indeed be made up entirely of CF material.
Soon afterwards, the name Trek became linked to CF research, development and bicycle frame production.

For me, it was all just an exercise in futility. The entire idea that flimsy sheets of carbon fibers could hold the weight of a full grown adult, seemed to be absolutely preposterous. Then I began to hear about handlebars swinging into CF top tubes and breaking them. Later, all during the 1990's, I was to hear about CF frames exploding during cycling and injuring the unsuspecting cyclists. Soon the idea about CF bicycle frames became entirely laughable.

However, I would occasionally begin to see more and more CF frames in the form of road bikes. During tours with my club, it wasn't unusual to see a couple of guys on CF road bikes. I would secretly smirk and try to shrug the experience off as a quaint event. However, you can do that for just so long because you begin to see far too many on the road.

Sometime around the year 2002, I began to think of CF bikes as having potential. Yet I still viewed them as being quirky, unpredictable, and prone to catastrophic failure. However after repeated sightings of CF bike frames, you begin to suspect your own previous ideas.

So, after awhile your figure, alright, maybe there's something to this carbon stuff. Maybe it's not that bad afterall. Besides, I'm not hearing any horror stories anymore. I only have memories of the horror stories that I once heard. Hey! Those memories are fading...

This was my mindset about CF bicycle frames until this morning. Then I read this post from RobertL located in Zeerith's thread about Carbon vs. Aluminum frames. Contained within RobertL's post was the following CF Madone Trek Link:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nVbmcnsXXs

Anyway, after observing this video, I have new found respect for the utilization of carbon fiber in bicyle frames, thanks to RobertL.


My only question about CF now is the following:

How does CF react to medium to high impact in small areas?


- Slim

PS.

Thanks Again RobertL!

Pigs are flying now!

I am relatively new to cycling, so when I got into it carbon fiber was my only option.

I'm sure it was just a matter of perfecting the manufacturing techniques that led to a reliable carbon fiber frame. Cannondale claims their SS Evo does better at all the stress tests than their CAAD10 and it is nearly half the weight. Pretty impressive for "flimsy sheets of carbon fibers," right?

You DAMNED better believe they are!!!

- Slim

The link doesn't work for me!

Dogs and cats living together...mass hysteria!

I keep hearing that our home planet actually goes around the sun, but I can clearly see it come up over the eastern horizon and go down over the west. In between, it travels across the sky. Yeah, this heliocentric thing is useful if you want to predict where Jupiter is going to be one day ... but you can clearly watch the sun go around the Earth!

does this mean bf people will stop hating on trek now?

Careful with your humor, there are still some unanswered questions about CF.

Most cyclists aren't quite comfortable with it just yet...

I've had faith in its potential for sometime now. I just didn't know that CF is as advanced as it is, today.
The V-10 from Santa Cruz in it DH MTN racing has CF for its front, but the rear is completely aluminum.

Why is that?

Most DH racing MTN bikes are 100% aluminum....Why is that?

There's still much to be learned here Seattle, so don't go so high and mighty all of a sudden on me...huh?

- Slim

I walk around on a daily basis on a carbon fiber socket and foot. I play paintball on it, cycle with it, hike, you name it. I use a carbon fiber barrel on my paintball gun that I have landed my full weight on and pulled up a plug of soil. It has never cracked or failed me.
These continued posts people make about treating CF like an eggshell is silly.

How did you come about this notion of "most"?

Ah__Go ride your bike!..You..You..You..Oh_ Never mind! You know what you are!

- Slim

Downhill bikes don't really benefit from things like lower weights or fancy tube shapes, plus all you really want is a great fork and great rear shock, neither of which really benefit from being made out of carbon. Not to say there aren't great full carbon DH bikes, the main benefits from carbon fiber just aren't that useful for DH riding.

Because that's cheap to make and sells at a decent price point. Also, down hill bikes don't benefit from light weight the way up hill ones do.

Asking why some people don't have faith in something is kind of silly ... look at how many people are afraid of flying, and how much safer flying is than driving.

OK, assuming you're being serious.... The video is basically the kind of stuff I suspect most people have been trying to tell you for some time.

If there is an impact at a specific point, CF will hold up about as well as any other type of frame. The big difference in this respect will be the ability and cost to repair it, assuming that the damage isn't covered under warranty.

E.g. if you have a low-end steel bike, a replacement frame will cost you $500 or less. A mid-range aluminum frame might run you $600 and up. A CF frame or high-end metal (steel, aluminum, titanium) can easily cost $1200 and up.

quote from my all time favorite movie.

Because I talk to many people who commute by bicycle. I also visit many bicycle shops.

Most people forty and up, who would like to start cycling again, don't trust CF.

Most younger people feel quite comfortable with it. They wish they could afford it, but they can't. So they settle for aluminum. Most roadies would like to buy CF, hands down! There are still many older roadies who prefer aluminum. Heck, some still prefer steel ( I'm one of those)!

Carbon is here to stay! There's no doubting that. However, I'd like to feel 100% about it!

I'm already at the 90% mark, now leave me be!

- Slim

PS.

Of course, you have some people who will go to any extent just to highlight their silver moon. That's probably about 10% right there!

You have to get a carbon bike just to add to your stable.

Floyd thinks so

Ah...That's not my point.

My point is the following in the form of a question:

Given say the top tube of a CF frame;

When its struck in a small area (let's say a pebble kicked back by an eighteen wheeler truck);

How is the top tube compromised and why?

I'd just like to have that question answered by a materials expert.

- Slim

You've completely missed the purpose of the "why" here.

And:

Since when is it "silly" to ask why people might be ambivalent about CF, given its awful history?

BTW - It was the bicycle industry itself that came up with the terminology, "Catastrophic Failure". Trek was one of the main companies using that phrase as a disclaimer on their CF website.

- Slim

PS.

What latent reason do you harbor for being so harsh, Sir?

Imagine combining that fear with a CF plane!



https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...s-off-to-japan

"Symmetrical book stacking. You're right, no human would ever do this."

Who ya gonna call?

On-topic: I like carbon in my fork, but not in my frame. The bike still needs to maintain a sense of stability, and the small sacrifice in weight and road-buzz-removal is not worth it for my needs.

This thread is like a crash involving horse drawn carriages. Quaint.

To answer your question, CF is extremely strong but it is relatively brittle. It has a high modulus but once the elastic limit is exceeded it usually ends in failure. A lot of the strength also depends on the layup. I have taken a large hammer to a section of CF steerer tube and couldn't break it. YMMV