Slammed stems...
01-02-12, 08:59 AM
#51
Gouge Away
Actually, all the pictures posted were with the same set up- STI rear shifter and downtube front. This set up was used for mountainous races where the lightest possible bike was desired. Pretty neat. I don't think this lasted past the 90's, but it would be interesting to see how long Lance kept that set up.
EDIT: I just looked the pics over and in this one he is riding a 10-speed bike with a downtube front shifter: https://www.veloprints.com/Images/lance_armstrong_1.jpg
EDIT: I just looked the pics over and in this one he is riding a 10-speed bike with a downtube front shifter: https://www.veloprints.com/Images/lance_armstrong_1.jpg
01-02-12, 09:11 AM
#52
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Despite your incorrect use of English, you are wrong in your assertions. The human body has not changed. The point where the best compromise of power and position has not changed. Frame styles and handlebar design has changed. Even Cancellara's extremely lowslung position on the tops is no lower than a last generation racers drops. Nobody uses traditional round handlebars with a large saddle to bar drop because they were where the low hand position came from on a traditional double diamond frame. The ergonomics have been changed to give two positions near the basement and lower the handlebars reach by using a longer stem. Without a doubt there are people copying the look of slamming even if hampers their ability to ride. It does not discount the practice by racers with a very honed system for achieving exactly measured distances key to their optimum performance.
Perhaps the single most debated topic on this board is handlebar height...I believe because it reflects 'perception' of how strong a rider is i.e. how close to being a top rider even though this is more image than reality.
01-02-12, 10:14 AM
#53
your god hates me
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Clearly more Stem Slam Research is required, yet some candidates suggest removing all funding!
01-02-12, 10:18 AM
#54
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This is precisely the point MM I believe Dean was making which I agree with. More people copying aka posing with a slammed handlebar..than creating more watts and aero profile riding this way without suitable flexibility and technique. Most don't race here and those that do aren't elite riders.
If I recall correctly his bike fits him well as is, and he can kiss that goodbye if he just takes his current setup and slams it just so he can look like Joe Racer -- which if I also recall correctly he is not. He might have to move down a frame size to make the longer reach work for him. Or I suppose he could get a nice 45 degree riser stem.
01-02-12, 10:21 AM
#55
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Slamming the stem is for looks and vanity. The "more aggressive riding position" reason is a joke. Fast cyclists for have for years been as low as possible and you don't need a big saddle to bar drop to achieve it. Just need to hold the drops and bend your elbows. Look at old videos of someone like Francesco Moser hammering it and see how low he gets with a lot less drop than what is the fashion now.
'94 Record
Last edited by bbattle; 01-02-12 at 10:30 AM.
01-02-12, 10:34 AM
#56
Senior Member
If people are doing this for looks, that's just dumb. Someone admitted in Hot r Not that he stages his bike for photos, so anything is possible in the 41.
01-02-12, 10:35 AM
#57
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This is precisely the point MM I believe Dean was making which I agree with. More people copying aka posing with a slammed handlebar..than creating more watts and aero profile riding this way without suitable flexibility and technique. Most don't race here and those that do aren't elite riders.
Perhaps the single most debated topic on this board is handlebar height...I believe because it reflects 'perception' of how strong a rider is i.e. how close to being a top rider even though this is more image than reality.
Perhaps the single most debated topic on this board is handlebar height...I believe because it reflects 'perception' of how strong a rider is i.e. how close to being a top rider even though this is more image than reality.
Taller HT heights and these stupid compact bars are also to blame.
Try some deep drop 'Belgian' bars instead; You get tops for seated climbing and you can get low and flat for hammering through the valleys but I guess that doesn't matter if you just ride around the block in some industrial park on the weekends.
How much power is lost to a closed hip angle (oh the horror...)
01-02-12, 10:41 AM
#59
Senior Member
I've had three magnesium frames. First one was from Russia, second was a stock 56 from Boulder, and the most recent was custom. I knew exactly how I wanted this one built.
153mm head tube, no need for spacers. You'd have to be an idiot to build a custom frame with a stack of spacers.
153mm head tube, no need for spacers. You'd have to be an idiot to build a custom frame with a stack of spacers.
01-02-12, 11:28 AM
#60
fuggitivo solitario
+1.
Taller HT heights and these stupid compact bars are also to blame.
Try some deep drop 'Belgian' bars instead; You get tops for seated climbing and you can get low and flat for hammering through the valleys but I guess that doesn't matter if you just ride around the block in some industrial park on the weekends.
How much power is lost to a closed hip angle (oh the horror...)
Taller HT heights and these stupid compact bars are also to blame.
Try some deep drop 'Belgian' bars instead; You get tops for seated climbing and you can get low and flat for hammering through the valleys but I guess that doesn't matter if you just ride around the block in some industrial park on the weekends.
How much power is lost to a closed hip angle (oh the horror...)
I know you are tongue-in-cheek regarding the hip angle, but that's what short cranks are for
This is precisely the point MM I believe Dean was making which I agree with. More people copying aka posing with a slammed handlebar..than creating more watts and aero profile riding this way without suitable flexibility and technique. Most don't race here and those that do aren't elite riders.
Last edited by echappist; 01-02-12 at 11:32 AM.
01-02-12, 11:32 AM
#61
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I've had three magnesium frames. First one was from Russia, second was a stock 56 from Boulder, and the most recent was custom. I knew exactly how I wanted this one built.
153mm head tube, no need for spacers. You'd have to be an idiot to build a custom frame with a stack of spacers.
153mm head tube, no need for spacers. You'd have to be an idiot to build a custom frame with a stack of spacers.
I believe perhaps a bigger faux pas that incites the fashion police is a riser stem on a custom frame. Lots of Serottas riding along like this. Story goes like the following:
Experienced rider goes to a custom fitter/frame builder to create the 'perfect frame'. Fitter says...we need to get you a bit more nominal in your set up to ride more aero. Rider excited about the prospect goes...excellent....always wanted to ride in a more aggressive position. Rider gets the new custom bike with slammed stem, puts two hundred miles on it and his neck and back are killing him. On goes a riser stem which looks dumb on a custom bike like you say but comfort to the rider is restored.
My position on custom frames is they are VASTLY over rated. With all the different geometries available today, even outliar freaks in body proportion can find a great fit....even true for me...all legs.
Last edited by Campag4life; 01-02-12 at 11:35 AM.
01-02-12, 11:46 AM
#63
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A custom geometry frame (ideally titanium, a Seven) informs other riders on the MUP of your position as a dentist or surgeon.
01-02-12, 12:48 PM
#66
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Seven builds the frame using the head tube as part of the overall fit. Then they allow for spacers so that adjustments can later be made without having to buy a new fork. They think the owners will have their bikes for life.
01-02-12, 01:42 PM
#67
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Thanks. The aesthetics of the bike won't look right with 73 degree stem since the top tube has a 6 degree slope, it all flows. Too bad Ritchey doesn't make this WCS Classic bar with drop this deep anymore.
?
01-02-12, 01:49 PM
#68
fuggitivo solitario
Here's my contribution. Might eventually get a -25 stem as effective HT (with headset stack) is 16cm...
01-02-12, 02:16 PM
#69
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Lot's of amusing commentary. I went on a 400 mile tour in the EU on a rental bike with an adjustable stem. I experimented with bar height and found my lower back really liked having the bars somewhat lower than I had been riding. They tops of the bars are now 10 cm below the top of my saddle. My wife had been having pain in her upper back just below her shoulder blades and we kept trying higher and higher bars to no avail. We went the other way and she's now much happier. Moral of the story is that despite what seems or intuitive or what the supposed conventional wisdom might be, try and see what works the best for you. If it's turns out it's a totally slammed pro look, bonus!
01-02-12, 02:39 PM
#70
Senior Member
I'd disagree with the "everyone fits" statement. If I had a level top tube bike it'd be a 50-ish cm with a 56.5 cm top tube. My compact geometry/style frames have been built with a 40 cm seat tube, 56.5 cm effective top tube. I run a 12 cm stem, -17 deg. If I could get a stock frame like that I would. I can't so I haven't.
For what it's worth I have a bad back with "several burst and bulging discs" (my doctor's exact words). I've ridden those bikes in reasonable comfort for up to 7 hours. "Reasonable comfort" means I was tired and sore but otherwise fine while riding the whole ride; I know things are good when I prefer to be in the drops towards the end of a ride.
From slamthatstem (heh):
and:
For what it's worth I have a bad back with "several burst and bulging discs" (my doctor's exact words). I've ridden those bikes in reasonable comfort for up to 7 hours. "Reasonable comfort" means I was tired and sore but otherwise fine while riding the whole ride; I know things are good when I prefer to be in the drops towards the end of a ride.
From slamthatstem (heh):
and:
01-02-12, 02:43 PM
#71
Senior Member
My wife had been having pain in her upper back just below her shoulder blades and we kept trying higher and higher bars to no avail. We went the other way and she's now much happier. Moral of the story is that despite what seems or intuitive or what the supposed conventional wisdom might be, try and see what works the best for you.
01-02-12, 05:18 PM
#72
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I slammed my stem! It actually feels like a better fit and it's not so low that it hurts my back probably because of my bike's long head tube?
Last edited by in0va3; 01-02-12 at 05:36 PM.
01-02-12, 08:37 PM
#74
Portland Fred
This has a medical sound to it. My guess is that after he got the bike, he suffered some injury or went though surgery making the original position at least temporarily impossible.
01-02-12, 08:48 PM
#75
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A long time ago I fit a woman who was 42 at the time; a recreational cyclist she rode a flat (a bit raised actually) bar hybrid. After getting the bike she had intuitively raised her bars for more comfort. Unfortunately she didn't feel comfortable with the bike for years. After meeting her and some discussion on the discomfort we dropped her bars significantly (using a totally different stem, this in the quill stem days), increased reach, and raised her saddle (and replaced it with a narrower women's saddle). She liked her bike a lot more after the position changes.