|
Originally Posted by danvuquoc
(Post 13686279)
This is probably key to the entire lawsuit, as well as if Specialized can prove when anything was developed.
|
Originally Posted by dalava
(Post 13686259)
- (this part I am not sure is true or not) Before they quit, they talked to Sp and was somewhat assured it's all cool
|
Originally Posted by dalava
(Post 13686289)
I don't think they even need to prove it's developed. It could just be a napkin drawing of the thing, or email between the two exchanging ideas.
|
Originally Posted by danvuquoc
(Post 13686303)
Isn't that a form of proof?
|
Originally Posted by NathanC
(Post 13686179)
You mean a curved top-tube that branches of to be the seat-stays?
|
Originally Posted by X-LinkedRider
(Post 13686270)
Just like any unoin or large corporation... They can only control your life while you're part of it. Afterwards they can only make fools of themselves trying... And just when they were about to eclipse Trek. AT&T and MicroSoft were less aggressive to its competitors than Specialized is. They are just not Lance enough for anybody to care quite yet.
|
This would be a more interesting thread in the MTB or hipster forums.
|
i dunno, but that bike looks nothing like a specialized and I kinda dig it
|
Most of us are rooting for the little guy, but with what seem to be few exceptions we are laypersons with respect to the legal issues, even those of us who have signed various types of employment agreements. I'm rooting for the little guy despite the faint possibility that my Volagi would become a priceless heirloom if they were to cease production.
I'll offer my HI Express opinion, however: how could the two former employees working in the capacity indicated be exposed to "trade secrets". See wiki for what probably is a reasonable definition. The trade secret can't be in the design of the Roubaix, for example, because there is no prohibition against reverse engineering a trade secret. And so what if the Volagi looks like something else unless a) there are patented features inherent in a Specialized design that Volagi has copied, or b) the Volagi design was aided by proprietary information to which the former employees were exposed. It's just as likely that Specialized is concerned not by the direct competitive threat, but by the interest in higher performance, light weight, disc brake-equipped road bikes. Volagi has received some very good press and while Specialized is more than capable of offering such a bike, doing so will cannibalize their current product line in which they have a sizable investment (tooling, R&D, advertising, etc.). It may be that one or more of Specialized competitors is closer to release of a disc brake road bike and Specialized desires to slow down market interest. Should be interesting to see what the court decides. It is a great bike. |
i haven't read all the posts, so maybe this has been said before, but it never looks good for a large company to sue former employees attempting to make a success of a start-up. it always looks like sour grapes. if i were in the jury pool, specialized would do well to use one of their preemptive objections to my serving on the jury.
|
Originally Posted by wkg
(Post 13685060)
Specialized doesn't just bully other small companies, they also bully their own dealers.
|
im boycotting them now,the compete contract is void but apparently some of you dont understand it means nothing in cali,2 unless they have physical proof they took stuff from them they have no case they are just trying to muscle them
|
Originally Posted by FlashBazbo
(Post 13685214)
This really isn't as strange as you guys are making it out to be. If Specialized requires its employees to sign the same standard agreement that most manufacturing companies do, they will win this suit.
Probably all equipment manufacturers with enough money for legal counsel have, as a part of the employment arrangement, a clause that assigns all industry-related inventions created by the employee during their term of employment to the company. This is true whether the invention was created at work, at home, or at a competitor's shop. The same deal is signed by every employee. It would be extremely unusual for a company like Specialized NOT to have such a provision. And it would be extremely unusual for a new hire not to sign it. (If they didn't sign it, they would not be hired. The company would assume that the person came to the relationship with less than pure motives.) Volagi's principals made a number of mistakes. First, of course, they very likely violated their employment agreements in a big way. (Something that Specialized CANNOT let slide, lest their I.P. all be subject to appropriation.) Were they insane or just stupid? Probably just stupid. (Hire a lawyer before you do something this big!!) Second, they didn't wait long enough to have a plausible argument that they invented their technology after they left Specialized. The time line for this deal (their departure from Specialized practically on top of a competitive product introduction) makes this a very easy, and relatively inexpensive, case for Specialized to win. Because the bike was invented during their time at Specialized, Specialized OWNS their design! Asking for a royalty is going easy on these guys. Most former employers would not be so charitable as to let the new entity continue to exist. They could very well press charges for theft. |
Damn!..Judging by this thread, it would behoove Specialized to drop the lawsuit altogether!
It certainly isn't gaining them any prospective customers in this neighborhood! - Slim :) PS. Specialized leaves a bad taste in my mouth for other nefarious reasons... |
Originally Posted by NathanC
(Post 13686069)
Similar? These are about as similar as the Roubaix is to any other road bike.
http://www.primera-sports.com/system..._800_False.png http://www.freerider.ro/wp-content/u...iscio_2012.jpg |
those volagi seem like very nice bikes!!! and having volagi sued will hype their sales ....its a statement many can enjoy. so get your volagi while they still exist! ;)
|
|
That site you linked, kinda scares me. |
Originally Posted by rdtompki
(Post 13686872)
Most of us are rooting for the little guy, but with what seem to be few exceptions we are laypersons with respect to the legal issues, even those of us who have signed various types of employment agreements. I'm rooting for the little guy despite the faint possibility that my Volagi would become a priceless heirloom if they were to cease production.
I'll offer my HI Express opinion, however: how could the two former employees working in the capacity indicated be exposed to "trade secrets". See wiki for what probably is a reasonable definition. The trade secret can't be in the design of the Roubaix, for example, because there is no prohibition against reverse engineering a trade secret. And so what if the Volagi looks like something else unless a) there are patented features inherent in a Specialized design that Volagi has copied, or b) the Volagi design was aided by proprietary information to which the former employees were exposed. It's just as likely that Specialized is concerned not by the direct competitive threat, but by the interest in higher performance, light weight, disc brake-equipped road bikes. Volagi has received some very good press and while Specialized is more than capable of offering such a bike, doing so will cannibalize their current product line in which they have a sizable investment (tooling, R&D, advertising, etc.). It may be that one or more of Specialized competitors is closer to release of a disc brake road bike and Specialized desires to slow down market interest. Should be interesting to see what the court decides. It is a great bike. Thanks for the informative post. That was my thoughts as well about the "trade secrets" |
Anybody on here ridden the Volagi Liscio?
Care to comment on the ride characteristics and up-close aesthetics? |
I don't believe that this has anything to do with similarity to any Specialized bikes, disk brakes, colors or any other aspect of the Specialized product line. I think that this comes down to Choi and Forsman likely having signed employment contracts with Specialized that assigned all their inventions to Specialized during the term of their employment. If you follow that assumption, then Specialized don't believe that they stole anything from their current line, rather the they *own* the Volagi bike design/intellectual property under the terms of their employee contracts. If so, then they are suing Volagi for selling a bike that is covered by Specialized intellectual property.
What makes this unfortunate in my eye is that between the Facebook posting and the bike rumor interview, it seems as though they are incriminating themselves somewhat by flagging that they had the ideas while employees, or at least during their notice period. http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/01/05/...it/#more-38592 http://www.facebook.com/volagi/posts/355322411151386 |
Originally Posted by Beaker
(Post 13687088)
I don't believe that this has anything to do with similarity to any Specialized bikes, disk brakes, colors or any other aspect of the Specialized product line. I think that this comes down to Choi and Forsman likely having signed employment contracts with Specialized that assigned all their inventions to Specialized during the term of their employment. If you follow that assumption, then Specialized don't believe that they stole anything from their current line, rather the they *own* the Volagi bike design/intellectual property under the terms of their employee contracts. If so, then they are suing Volagi for selling a bike that is covered by Specialized intellectual property.
What makes this unfortunate in my eye is that between the Facebook posting and the bike rumor interview, it seems as though they are incriminating themselves somewhat by flagging that they had the ideas while employees, or at least during their notice period. http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/01/05/...it/#more-38592 http://www.facebook.com/volagi/posts/355322411151386 |
Originally Posted by Jed19
(Post 13687063)
Anybody on here ridden the Volagi Liscio?
Care to comment on the ride characteristics and up-close aesthetics? I'm 200 lbs so the difference between my Giant OCR1 and the Volagi can't be more than 4-5 pounds, but what really surprised me is the difference in climbing out of the saddle. There is no question that when I'm standing on something steep (>12% for me) it takes considerably less energy to handle the bike at these low speeds. We've got a nasty 2400' climb right next to our house and the difference was discernible and with no fade on the really nasty descent. With the 11-32 on the Volagi I've got basically the same gearing as on the Giant triple, a necessity for us legitimate senior citizens. |
Originally Posted by Jed19
(Post 13685047)
Why is Specialized trying to strangle Volagi in its crib thru a lawsuit?
Is this company a courthouse bully? |
Originally Posted by dalava
(Post 13687299)
I just read an updated interview with choi posted today. This is exactly what this law suit is all about. I don't think it's looking good for the small guy. The had a design in jan.2010, and they left spesh in April, and showed the bike in sept.
But we shall see soon enough. There's no reason to swear off Specialized for good yet, we don't know how it's going to turn out, but at this point it looks very plausible that either side could be right. We just don't have all the details yet. |
So I read through this diatribe and am still at a loss to figure out what the great leap in bicycle technology that these guys have stolen? Anyone? Disc brakes on a road bike. Curved seat stays, no less GT style from the 90's. Longer wheelbase. Color scheme, maybe if it was Celeste.
Specialized legal department is going to be busy suing everyone. |
I hope specy sue them for everything, then build that bike themselves and sell it cheaper.
Because I bloody want one. |
Originally Posted by oilman_15106
(Post 13687496)
So I read through this diatribe and am still at a loss to figure out what the great leap in bicycle technology that these guys have stolen? Anyone? Disc brakes on a road bike. Curved seat stays, no less GT style from the 90's. Longer wheelbase. Color scheme, maybe if it was Celeste.
Specialized legal department is going to be busy suing everyone. |
Originally Posted by Jed19
(Post 13687518)
It looks like it's not about the bike. It is really about sending a "message" to any current employee that has any entrepreneurial lean and might get "ideas", to as they say in New York, "fuggedaboutit".
|
Originally Posted by bored117
(Post 13687605)
I think got the message... Ain't buying specialized bike anytime soon at this rate.
Trust me when I say: the more people dont buy anything from them, the more it hurts their bottom.line. In this tough economy, even gigantic bike companies like Specialized, cant afford to lose money. Looks like theyre well on their way to losing ALOT of $$$. Someone needs to ask the company, when its all over with, was it really worth it? Bet their answer will be no. |
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:18 PM. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.