Originally Posted by grolby (Post 13846412)

With this kind of half-arsed, low-budget analysis, I suggest that you guys keep your day jobs.

It is of course true at this point that SRAM has no electronic shifting system. The significance of this fact for SRAM's short-term competitiveness is probably limited. Shimano's bread and butter is still in cable-activated systems. SRAM definitely needs to have an electronic system in development, but the fact that it's not out yet doesn't mean anything at the moment. As for Campagnolo, they simply aren't a major competitor for either SRAM or Shimano, and if you don't understand this you can't hope to make a realistic analysis of the component industry. If you're worried about one of these three companies failing at some point in the not-too-distant future, you should worry about Campy. SRAM and Shimano compete somewhat superficially on technology, and compete extremely fiercely on OEM specification and supply. SRAM was extremely good at this BEFORE they entered the road component market. It isn't that surprising that their expertise in the OEM market has translated to enormous success in the road components market. The key here is not just cool new technology: it is cool new technology that they can bring to market in large volumes at a price that makes manufacturers want to use SRAM parts to spec their bikes. This is why Campy isn't even running.

Incidentally, for all the hand-waving about pro teams buying competing groups rather than using sponsor SRAM groups, it is Shimano and SRAM that dominate the peloton. Campagnolo is used by, what, three Pro Teams at this point? It is true that SRAM has some specific weaknesses, but they are doing a lot better than Campy (see above, re: Campy Is Not A Major Competitor In This Market).

As for comparing SRAM to the other two in pure technical terms, even in the absence of an electronic system, they are looking pretty good. For one, they are willing to experiment with interesting new ideas, which is what propelled Shimano to dominance in the '80s. For another, they are in pole position on hydraulic disc brakes for road bikes, which, for all you deride them as "old tech" is a big deal. And from a technological perspective, they are better poised to move in this new direction with both mechanical groups and a hypothetical future electronic group set (and, as evidence that this is a significant shift in technology, Shimano has a road disc system in the works as well). I could be wrong, but I believe the SRAM is the only manufacturer whose mechanical shifting mechanism will allow the use of a hydraulic master cylinder in a mechanical lever. I'm pretty sure that Shimano won't be able to squeeze hydraulics into a mechanical lever, meaning an electronic-only system, which will limit the short-term adoption of their system. Which obviously puts SRAM in an advantageous position, notwithstanding that they are going to be first to market with a hydraulic road disc anyway.

So I think SRAM is doing just fine, thank you very much. They've got good tech, extremely good operations, and a design team that is willing to try thinking different from the competition. I wouldn't worry too much about them being left behind.

Originally Posted by nhluhr (Post 13846490)

Thanks for the dose of reality... Personally, I did not like SRAM before due to three things: I hate double-tap and I could not tolerate the crappy front shifting and relatively noisy drivetrain. New RED has apparently fixed at least two of those. I'll give it another try and see if I like it.

Originally Posted by rat fink (Post 13850133)

Oh, a new groupset? Cool. Can't wait for the used prices to finally go down. The prices on used Sram are ridiculous.

Originally Posted by intence (Post 13851128)

Di2/Ui2 are great, they're also needlessly complex (batteries, motors, etc.).

Originally Posted by patentcad (Post 13851142)

They are arguably simpler from an end user standpoint.

Originally Posted by patentcad (Post 13850985)

As long as idiots like you buy used bike crap, the prices will never go down.

Originally Posted by rat fink (Post 13851968)

Who can argue with this?

Originally Posted by intence (Post 13851128)

IMO SRAM's biggest problem is not being able to differentiate their groups (Rival/Apex offer AMAZING value for weight).

Originally Posted by VA_Esquire (Post 13852078)

Red: Shifters
Rival: Crankset, Front Derailleur
Apex: Cassette, Rear Derailleur
Planet X: Brakes
Cables: Yokozuna
Chain: KMC X10SL

yummm (and for less then $1,000 new)

Originally Posted by patentcad (Post 13851978)

I'm telling you, eBay your old bike crap, it will amaze you.

Originally Posted by VA_Esquire (Post 13852159)

I said Apex cassette and r.d. for the 11-32 capability. If it was a crit build I'd go with a recon 11-23 AL cassette and rival rear derailleur. The new Red is appealing, but nothing to do backflips over....

Originally Posted by VA_Esquire (Post 13852159)

I said Apex cassette and r.d. for the 11-32 capability. If it was a crit build I'd go with a recon 11-23 AL cassette and rival rear derailleur. The new Red is appealing, but nothing to do backflips over....