xfimpg

Hi Folks

I have this strange knee tension on the outside corner of both knees!

The tension is not on the side, nor on top of the knee; it's truly on the outside corner of both knees.

It's not so much pain but the kind of tension you get right before the pain begins.

I have "Bicycling Medicine" by Arnie Baker but he doesn't mention it.

Does anyone have any idea what the source is?

generalkdi

Do you stretch yourself enough? This can happen if a side of you leg is much stiffer than the other and pull on you knee only on one side.

xfimpg

I'll admit i'm not a big fan of stretching. This doesn't happen early in the ride, about 1 hour into it I would say.

You mean that I have tension because I'm not pulling evenly?

generalkdi

Forget what I said, don't think it would happen during the ride if it was it...

But stretching is never bad, nether is to reinforce your knees.

xfimpg

No problem.
I know this year I am changing my pedaling action from masher to puller, meaning I am pulling with my thighs and nothing else. That may have something to do with it.

Bacciagalupe

Actually, stretching does not usually help. It does not increase flexibility or warm you up; it actually weakens your muscles for 20-30 minutes.

If you are having knee problems, the first thing to check is your bike fit, including cleat position and amount of float.

generalkdi

Well, I had problems in the inside corner of the knee, and stretching and strenghtening my knees helped a lot. (I don't have any problem now)

laserfj

Cleat position/alignment.

Are you toe in? Try more toe-out. Try matching your foot alignment on the bike to your resting foot alignment off the bike as a starting point.

ColinL

over-stretching is bad in general. before activity, you should quickly stretch and not push yourself, and also make sure to adequately warm up and cooldown. after the cooldown you stretch, but again, not until you feel pain.

stretching should be a pain-free activity.

HokuLoa

Sure, your knee of course. (I know, poor joke so sorry). Really though, the answer no one likes to hear; it is too hard to credibly tell as a "forum diagnosis." Annoying but true. Even if your description were perfect and perfectly understandable in some standard definition sort of way to each reader, diagnosing is near impossible online. Knees are a fairly complex interaction of many components put under a variety of environmental factors. Causes for your pain may be due to your own bio mechanics, your usage patterns, your bike setup or any combination of those (and more) factors. Without the ability to physically examine you and get a complete history a forum diagnosis is at best a guess.

Best advice/thoughts I can give: Assuming you have been riding this setup consistently for some time (how long?) problem free; what has changed? Did you just start riding again and up the intensity without the requisite base? If your base is solid did you change something else in your ride routines? Change your fit or other gear? What other athletics or generally strenuous activities have you done or are doing that may have affected your knees?

Ask yourself LOTS of these questions and have the answers ready. If the discomfort is all out pain go see a sports med specialist and use these and other answers to help her help you. Even those of us trained knuckleheads in the 41 have trouble doing that without an examination.

Good luck!

adrien

I had something similar, pain on one leg only, far outside corner of the knee. After a very long ride I noticed that it hurt more when I pushed my heel out away from the bike.

I adjusted the cleat to align my foot to the front/back plane while riding. I actually had the bike up on the stand and my shoe in-hand, and dialed it in. Change the cleat angle by a good 20 degrees.

Pain is 90% gone. It appears that I was constantly pushing slightly against the float spring in the pedal, causing muscle fatigue.

The other thing I do is use one of those rollers to massage the area.

xfimpg

Thanks guys for the feedback. I'll trial and error the cleat adjustment angle, that has to be it.

xfimpg

I have this. When I pedal, I feel my large toe area pushing against the limit of the float (pushing inwards), so to speak. However, I'm reluctant to adjust the cleat inwards as the pain is on the outside of knee.

Any suggestions?

EDIT: corrected my diagnosis above...

HokuLoa

Just a caution on the self-diagnosis and tinkering... certain injuries can be exacerbated by this method. Do take care and if you really do have pain rather than soreness from use/overuse it is strongly advisable to get an exam. Good luck!

blcknspo0ln

When you run, do you roll your heel on the outside, but put pressure on the big toe? If so, chances are you pronate like 80% of people and perhaps you also have a Varus (foot angle) condition. There are cleat wedges that can help with this. The cleat wedge is a tapered insert that you install between your shoe and cleat. The thicker side (for Varus) is positioned towards the inside (arch side) of your fit and tapers outward. This will cause your foot to "roll" back outward and relieve pressure, if that's your issue.

On a different note, I run supinated (I roll the outside heel and put pressure on my little toe - like a duck), so when I cycle my knees point out and I roll my feet away from the bike. After I got a foot insole insert for running that caters to supination, I use it in my cycling shoe which cured my problem!

xfimpg

Thanks for the tips, guys, and i'll be careful.
I did ride tonite and stopped a few times to make slight modifications. I'm almost there. I did notice after my last modification that when I pull up with my thigh, I could definitely feel the thigh muscle working (as opposed to focusing on knee stress) and the slight corner knee pain had gone down to only a slight pressure point in the corner knee area.

I also noticed a significant release of stress on the corner knee when pulling my knee up slightly inwards (towards the top tube). Maybe I was pulling outwards and i didnt notice it.

I don't run because of a herniated disk, but I can tell you that I do have a neutral foot with a slightly higher-than-average foot arch. And I do have a Lemond wedge (2mm) to compensate for 1.6cm leg length discrepancy, same config as my mountain bike setup.

bobonker

Do you ever do any IT band work? Ie, with a foam roller or a "The Stick" ?

When my IT bands get tight, I start to feel it on the outside-ish area of my knee.

Bob

xfimpg

Oh no.. never.

bobonker

Give it a try. I saw a PT for knee pain last year and when he started working my IT bands, the pain was ... amazing. It sure did the trick though. You can try just pressing with the palm of your hand and running down the length of the IT band. If yours needs loosening up, you'll pretty much know right away.

Bob

generalkdi

yup, the foamroller was exactly where I was going when I talked about stretching. A must for any cyclist IMO. Incredibly painful at first, but all the pain goes away after!

xfimpg

Do you guys use the foam roller before or after a ride, or both?

generalkdi

Always stretch after your ride. I usually stretch about 30min after.

HokuLoa

After. Cold stretching is not the best and the ITB can stand to loosen a bunch post ride.

blcknspo0ln

I like to stretch a couple miles into a ride and then a full on foam roll at the end and maybe that same night. Foam rolling = heaven.