here in flat florida, i've done several centuiries just over 4 hours (total elapsed time) All had stops, and the group wasn't out to do sub 4 hours.

In the fall, a big group here sets out to do the Swamp Man Century sub 4hours. We'll likely do that on the Tandem this year.

As for non working wheel suckers, plus one on not worryying about it.

However, if you do want rid of them, the technique is to "take out the trash"

Last guy in your group purposefully lets a gap develop in front of them. The wheelsuckers then have to chase up, or get dropped. You take turns in your group doing this repeatedly, and the wheelsuckers will die, get the message, or just give up.

or...continue to latch on enjoy the exercise. Probably most wheel suckers aren't as strong as the paceline...but some are and just want to suck and not pull.
Me personally...it doesn't matter in the least. As usual, most riders get in more trouble trying to 'do something about it' rather than accepting there are all kinds. If the pace group are all a self professed set of bad @$$s...then just prove it....take the line up to just under 30 mph for a sustained period of time and drop the guys. If you can't drop them, then they deserve to suck.

I don't usually suck wheels, but it's not like it has never happened before. Sometimes it just happens. Like I see a group and make it a goal to catch them, and then I catch them, but they're going too fast for me to pass, so I just sort of end up in the back of them.
But whenever someone does that thing where the guy in the front falls back and points to a spot right in front of me, I let him in, and I take that as a hint and I fall back so I don't bother anyone.

You're diabolical.

Where did you get that? What I responded to was a post about the relative differences of RUNNING a marathon and RIDING a century.

You only have so many marathons in your body. You can pretty much do as many centuries as you want. Virtually any marathon is gonna be tougher than any century just because of the damage you do to yourself.

ive never participated in a sub 5 hr cent.

most centuries ive done have been with either solo or surrounding a group ride, so the speed is much lower b4 and after the ride.

i've only done 2 fully organized century rides, the tour of the unknown coast up in Humboldt County, CA.
It has more than 10,000 ft of climbing. I didn't do it in 5 hrs, although ppls have been very close in the past.

+1. It's hard to equate a marathon at a given time to a century. Your shredded at the end of a marathon. I never ran one where the last 6 miles weren't very, very painful (best time 2:42). Even at an advanced age I can ride a century with some discomfort, but I could go out the next day and ride; not so in the case of running a marathon.

Yep. Seems like once you've accumulated enough mileage in your legs, you could pretty much roll out of bed and do a century, especially in a big group. Marathon, on the other hand, is a whole different ball of wax. It's been a while since I last did one, but it seemed like most of the training was more about adapting your joints to the hours of pounding than it was about building cardiovascular fitness.

+1

Sub 5 hr for a flat century is not bad or that hard depending on the route and wind. I did a 5:05 century solo as my long route on a weekend, and I am a fat tub of lard that can't really tear up the pavement. It was an out and back route with the light to no wind on my face for the first 50 miles and then a 10-15 MPH tail wind on the return.

I don't think you can understate that. I would pick a strong risen in your group to be the dedicated "gatekeeper or yeller". Those people lingering on the tail of a group that never come to the front not even once with fear written all over their faces and the look of "I'm not going to be able to gang on to this very much longer" is one of the things that scare the crap out of me in organized rides.

I disagree, but you might be right though LOL............

Personally, I wouldn't mind if someone said "Hey, I'm not as strong as you guys. I'm just going to sit on, if that's okay." That indicates a level of awareness that this rider understands group ride dynamics and his own limitations.

Completely agree. I have done that myself.

I'm going to venture a guess and say you aren't a runner.

I believe you hit on perhaps the keynote reason that guys latch on and don't pull. I am always amazed...well not really as the 41 is basically just a cross-section of the cycling public...when cyclists get so upset by wheel suckers. Even your opinion...they should admit their weakness...lol. Why? Anybody who has been doing pacelines for any length of time gets it. Wheel suckers are by and large harmless. Most decent cyclists get it. If a guy sticks on the back and doesn't pull, he likely doesn't have the strength to do it. So what. There is nothing wrong with a weaker rider wanting to part of the group. The guy sucking the back of a pack may have more social redeeming value than the whole pack combined but that doesn't stop those from hating on them.

I mostly agree with that, with the caveot that the people getting the free ride know what they're doing.

It's not a race, and there's no harm to people sitting in if they're not disruptive.

However, if they don't know how to execute, they can be disruptive.

Open space for the rider off the front to slot into the back of the rotation, and then take his wheel is fine.

What's not fine is sitting in the rotation, and then not pulling through, or dropping the pace of the line when you do get to the front, or staying at the back, but not knowing how to smoothly let people in in front of you.

At a bit over 140 pounds, for 5 hours on the dot and 4600 feet of climbing, I had an average power of 192w, and a NP of 231w

Solo, I've managed to do 100 miles in 5 hours on 188w AP. That was fairly flat and zero wind.

I have run 12 marathons from 3:05-3:27 reasonably consist and they are nothing like a 5 hr century even though I have never done a 5 hr century. It is not a pissing contest for sure running just involves pounding and body damage. Cycling unless you hit pavement does not have this type of stress. In the same way I cannot image anyone running a sub 2:20 marathon, elite status for sure, I cannot imagine doing a century in much under 4 hours. I know people do it and seems like it must be reasonably within reach of riders, I think it is a huge high level of success. I do not do group rides so I have nothing to really compare but even in a group I cannot imagine average speeds of over 25 mph for that length of time. Sort of like the doing 5 minute miles for 20 or more miles. Many runners can a 5 minute mile but for 20 plus miles you be a elite.

Sub 4 hour century with a group is an order of magnitude below a 2:20 marathon. That's approaching world class for the marathon.

Conversely, there are decent Cat 4's that can do a sub 4 hour century in a group.

Fair enough. I guess I've joined faster guys...including my riding buddies joining a pace line riding past us and we wanting have a bit of fun and joining up.
I remember one fast group last year and basically they were eating their young. They were riding so aggressively they were dropping most of the guys within 'their' group. We each took a turn at pulling. By contrast, I have had singles and doubles joint our group. We ride different speeds. Sometimes fast, sometimes we just cruise and talk. We rotate front and back and they just latch onto the back and don't pull. Honestly, any or all of it doesn't matter much. I believe the point is...just like driving a car or a motorcycle, one gets in more trouble trying to control others than they do by controlling themselves.

I think the average decent cyclist or runner can't fathom...or rather they know the effort involved in the amazing feats you speak of. The best are really special. I don't run for the reason you state...the beating. Not only is strength, endurance and cardio tested...but a marathon literally beats one to death in the process...far cry from cycling.
I sometimes think about Eddy's hour record of over 30 mph when I am out riding and hammering. Unbelievable really. Most of us can't sustain 30 mphs for 5 miles...or rather I can't...but an hour?

Thanks for providing the power numbers for your rides. Can you explain the terms NP?...is that max?....AP...average power?
Was your climbing ride in a paceline?...appears as though climbing even with drafting may have a bigger effort than riding solo on flat land which makes sense.

Congrats...to sustain nearly 200w for 5 hours is a formidable effort...and one I couldn't accomplish without training. It is one thing to do a century in a paceline and average 20 mph...but a different level to do it solo...even in ideal conditions.

AP = average power
NP = normalized power (basically adjust for peaks and valleys in power output using some kind of algorithm / formula and converts it to an 'average' power value)

Didn't make sense that NP was max power...because maximum efforts would have been much higher. I do wonder what the algorithm for normalized power looks like...presuming it is area under the curve versus mean or average power.
Thanks.

The climbing stuff was riding pretty hard. Mostly me sucking wheel behind really strong riders. For sure climbing within a group is harder than a flat century. On those hills I was hammering up them and when you're in the saddle for 5+ hours, it hurts to do those really hard efforts