Given all the recent tire threads, I thought my recent experience might be enlightening to some. Veteran cyclists who have experience with multiple tire/wheel/bike combinations have probably already observed this.

About a year ago I upgraded the wheels on my CAAD9 to a custom set with Kinlin rims and WI hubs. I mounted the BF approved 23mm GP4000s tires. I ride mostly with approx 90/100 psi. I'm 195-200 lbs. I have logged about 3,000 miles on this setup.

Recently I purchased a carbon Synapse. It came stock with Aksium wheels and 25mm Schwalbe Durano tires. I road the stock setup for around 400 miles with usually around 85/95 psi. In the interest of experimentation, I then swapped out my custom wheels but left the stock 25mm tires (change only one variable) and 85/95 psi. I did several more rides on this setup. I noticed improvement in handling, seemed to spin up faster, felt lighter but I did not notice any great change in road noise or vibration. In other words, custom wheels seemed to handle better but not much change in road noise.

Yesterday, I took the CAAD out for the first time in a while and it has the Aksium wheels from the Synapse and well-worn GP4000s tires (i.e. same setup as before but just a different wheel set). I was surprised to note that the ride had considerably less road noise and vibration despite being an aluminum bike with the lower end Aksium wheels. I ride one section of road a lot and it has numerous cracks that I have become intimately familiar with. I don't believe it was pure placebo. The GP4000s tires seems to have more impact on ride quality than wheel quality (at least between these 2 aluminum wheel sets) or frame material - just as many veterans have repeatedly pointed out.


TLDR version:

CAAD9 with 23mm GP4000s tires and 90/100psi on lower end wheels rides better than carbon Synapse with 25mm tires and 85/95psi on custom wheels.

Still TLDR version:
Schwable Durano tires suck. GP4000s rock.

Now to try some 25mm GP4000s on the Synapse.

Do me a favor and get something built with 23mm wide rims and roll it through your test cases, too.

I misread the title as "Observing Time Effects," and I thought it might be a thread about how to figure out how long a century really took, once you've factored time dilation in.

But I'll sadly and disappointedly agree that good tires (GPs for example) can have a big effect on ride quality.

A set is on order and will probably be mounted with 25mm GP4000s though I could through the Duranos on there just to confirm they suck.

Sorry. That would have been more interesting. I'm slow in more ways than one.

Excellent.

Just to add my non-scientific and purely anecdotal testimony: I have been logging most of my miles on 23mm GP4000s tires on A23 rims with occasional rides on 25mm GP 4 Seasons on Mavic CXP rims, both at 90/100 psi for 180lb me. Last weekend I got out my climbing wheels which have IRD Cadence (Kinlin) rims mounted with 23mm Pro 3 Races at 100/110 psi. Some of the roads I was on had some sandy dust on them and on more than one occasion while climbing I broke the rear loose. This left me feeling not so confident on descents which I took very slowly. I have not been on the same roads with these conditions with my regular wheel/tire sets so this info is essentially useless.

tires matter massively more than wheels for ride quality, comfort, agility and grip. wheels are for stiffness (if you don't feel or observe flex, then it's stiff enough), aerodynamics and weight. there are many more grams to be gained or lost in wheels than any two tires of the same size and approximate cost.

next set of tires, buy 25mm GP4000S. you'll get even better ride quality and forget all about the duranos. or instead you can buy a 25mm set of some other premium or ultra-premium tire. but a durano is no match for a GP4000S, nor should it be considering their list prices.*


*yes I know about buying tires from the UK or ebay.

I had to ride a GP4000 home one day after a sheetrock screw went through the tread and out the sidewall. I was able to boot it, put about 80 psi into it (I'm 200 lbs) and ride gently home. I'll tell ya...the ride was SOOOOOO comfy it felt like I was on a beach cruiser! When I did apply a little power I could feel the tire squish around but over the chipseal it was so smooth. If only I wasn't so worried about pinch flats.

Try a set of Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX 320 and prepare to be astounded.

DG

Thanks. Actually been thinking of giving them a try. Only concern is these are more of a race tire and I hear they don't last long or offer much puncture protection.

On the front they last forever. On the rear I got 3500 km and there was a definite worn section down the centre of the tire. I cut the tire with scissors to see what the tread depth was like, and there was probably another 1500 km on them before cord. Not the longest lasting tire, but not burnt and gone in a weekend either.

Punctures I have had no issues.

You will have to go up in air pressure a little - the casing is so supple that the sidewalls don't do the supporting, the air does. That being said, they are smoother at 130 PSI than any other tire I've tried at 110 PSI.

DG

My advice to buy the 25mm remains. You can get the Open Corsa Evo CX in that size.

To me, the super skinny, super high PSI tires aren't optimal for the vast majority of riders or the vast majority of rides. This is particularly true for larger riders, but makes sense for most anyone (I'm 5'10" 145). I have a set of 32MM tires on a road bike I own that can handle tires that wide. I run them at about 85PSI. I'm only very marginally slower on that bike and the payoff on overall ride comfort and handling is huge. The bike absorbs bumps so well that I can easily use it on limestone rail trails and the like (32 hole rims help). I've also used it on 20MPH+ group road rides with no problem.

IMO, unless you're racing, go for the widest tire your frame will fit. Unfortunatley, my road bike maxes out at 23MM, I'd love to fit 25s in there for training.

The Vittorias are indeed dreamy. If you ride hard and on lots of chipseal, they will wear quicker than GP's. If you weigh a lot, they will wear very quickly. Best ride I have found, though. I do have some Michelin ProRace4's waiting to go onto a wheelset, though. Just have to finish building the front wheel.

I went from Vittoria Zaffiro Pro 23's to Forte Strada ($10) 25's and improved my ride. If this is any indication, I could probably make the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs if employing the use of expensive GP4K's.

Great work on the scientific method, but riddle me this: Perhaps you have not flatted yet, but if so, what are the stats? I would rather have a loud or harsh ride than a vulnerable ride. Many reviews of Conti tires, be it Ultra Sport or GP4K, say they hang onto road debris better than any other tire. This alone bothers me because I loathe the changing of flats, and the first person to mention tubeless will be soundly thumped on the melon over the interwebz. I expect this person will be DropDeadFred

It's tough to do science on this. Every tire review I have ever read has someone complaining about how easy that particular tire punctures.

I, on the other hand, even though I am not a small dude, never puncture on the road bike, and very seldom puncture on the MTB, even though I use tires on both bikes with the consistency of rubberized tissue paper.

The few road bike flats I have had were the valvestem tearing loose from the tube.

I can offer no real explanation for this... but it does provide a data point that running high-end tires without the anti-flat protection belts need not mean an abnormally high percentage of flats.

DG

No flats on the GP4000s. I ride almost constantly on road debris. Bike lanes around here are always covered in small rocks, glass bits here and there, plastic from taillights left from accidents or whatever, random bits of metal and wire, twigs, dead squirrels, live snakes, and clueless teenagers. No pinch flats either even with my somewhat low PSI for my weight. Rear is getting worn though so I'm kind of expecting something before long - plus I just challenged the flat gods so I'm probably screwed. Thanks for asking.

I've had occasional punctures on GP4000s and GP4 Season's. I'd guess maybe 1/2000 miles. I've had better luck with Mich Krylions which I cannot recall ever having a flat with and I've had at least sets of them. I'm on my first set of Pro 3s and only have one ride in.

I like the ride of the GP4000 but mine always have their lifespan cut short by glass cuts. I've never gotten anywhere near wearing them down to the point where the wearout dimples start to disappear.

Yep, tire size makes a big difference in ride quality. I mounted my 25mm GP4000S on my very stiff Mavic SSC SL wheelset for my ride last Sunday (The 25mm had been hanging unused in my garage for a while) and was thrilled by the ride quality. I am now kinda in a mode of thinking that I'll never buy 23mm tires ever again. I don't think I'll miss 23mm tires, as I don't race.

Another thing, canam73 mentioned Michelin Krylions in post #17. I still have about 4 new/unused pairs of those tires remaining (had stocked up on the "made in France" versions when Michelin had discontinued them, before starting to manufacture them again in Thailand) and can attest about them being durable flat-wise. Also they roll fast. They were my "working man tires", as they were fast, durable and flat-resistant. I don't know if the current "made in Thailand" versions are still up to snuff.

The irony. Tried to squeeze a ride in today between the end of work and an evening event. 7 miles from my car I get a flat. Should have kept my mouth shut. Haven't fixed it yet so not sure what happened. I was running a bit late for a school event and took a ride from a nice passerby. Normally would not have, but being late to work events never looks good. Of course, the kindness of strangers always reassures my faith in humanity.

I'm pretty sure I am with you on the 25s.

But to be 100% certain, I've just mounted my summer tires. (Watch me get caught in the rain, without GP4S. ) I put about 500 miles on a set of 23mm Vittoria Pro Light (slick) last fall before it got nasty. I just picked up a single 25mm real cheap so I'm running 23 front / 25 rear to find out for myself what the effect is on ride quality, speed, handling etc. Honestly I expect no difference whatsoever in anything besides ride quality. But that's kind of a huge one.

After the 25 is gone, I'll mount the remaining 23 and wear that out. And then I'll probably know whether I ride 23s, 25s or a mix from here out. My bet going into this is on the 25s front and rear...

I think it's more an issue of cheap vs. good tires. Cheap 25mm tires are not better than nice 23mm tires. At least that's what I noticed.

Construction has more effect than width.

A true width test must compare the same model tire in different widths.

DG

Well, cheap tires are not gonna be great, period.

The most important thing I've found with my 25mm Conti GP4000S is comfort. I can run lower PSIs, and that implies a somewhat cushier ride, which resulted in my being fresher after putting in my typical 65miler. Oh, the traction was also better on corners. Or, I felt more confident taking corners at a higher speed than I do with my 23mms.

dennis, I was set to disagree with you, but you're quite right. a 25mm gatorskin rides like crap and turns like crap, and a 23mm corsa evo cx rides like a dream and turns in crisply.

it's fairly subjective but road tires are easier to agree on than MTB tires, and there's a lot less variation in terrain. mainly, it seems to me that a lot of people are happy riding around on junk tires and some people that do buy great tires overinflate them and lose all the ride quality they would have gained.