Yes ...you could be a delusional guy who believes he is a talented singer and songwriter

You make it sound like it's OK or understandable for pros to dope but not amateurs. It's actually the other way around. These amateurs generally have very little to lose by doping and very low risk of getting caught. It's just a hobby for them, not a job. They don't lose any income if they get caught.

I never said I thought I had any talent. That's not my call. I just like to play. Hell, I keep telling you I think I suck at this.

The Pcad Hit Factory® produced another gem tonight by the way.

It's different today. A few years ago, you didn't even keep your job in the pro ranks if you refused to dope. So all these guys saw it as dope or go home anyway, what did they have to lose by doping? Their 'ethics'? Please. They were already engaged in a profession where nobody from the sponsors to the team managers to the big stars to the lowliest domestique appeared to concerned with the ethics involved; it was about the business of pro cycling, which was uniformly dirty for over a decade. That does appear to have changed.

According to one of the organizers:
"We had prizes worth over $100,000. Winner received an $8,000 Pinarello.

If you sell the bike, you receive

1. as much as the third placed rider at Fleche Wallonne or
2. 50% of what the entire team of Vancansoleil made at this year's Tour."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Tour_de_France

They weren't just riding for a T-shirt and a $3 trophy. If you wanted to go with the hyperbole, you might have just as well stated something more obvious in that all this stuff just justifies the fact that this is a really stupid sport.














I still like it though.

It's like being hooked on bad crystal meth., but costlier.

$3 trophy or $8,000 Chinarello--what's the difference when you are an over-the-hill never was amateur racer? You really think this guy doped to get rich or because he was hoping to get a call from Johan Bruyneel for winning a grand fondo?

If you take a step back, you will see that riding a bike, even professionally--strike that, especially professionally--is pretty stupid. I really don't want to elaborate on this point because one either get's it or they don't.

I really don't know nor do I care to speculate why the two riders who got caught doped. You were the one who brought up the monetary aspect of the GF event, downplaying it, by using the sarcastic example of t-shirt and $3 trophy. I was simply calling you out that this GF did, in fact, have significant monetary gains for performance.

Great job to the GF organizers for having anti-doping controls, but too serious for my blood for what used to be my regular Saturday ride route.

Cheaters think they are above the rules or at least don't care about the rules. People cheat all the time for no reward other than "winning", just check out jerks who cheat in a pickup basketball game with nothing at stake. Whether you're a pro or an amateur, it's still a jerk move...

I don't know how you got that out of my post since I wrote absolutely nothing about pro dopers.

Ah, now you're a revisionist - your original contention, the one that gsteinb and I contested, was that this was purely the realm of the "Type A personality upper middle class white male."

Doping is common among amateur musicians, though it isn't considered cheating...

I never said that was the only type of doper. I surmised that description fit THIS PARTICULAR doper. Learn to read.

If that was your point you didn't make it. Id put it on the writer and not the reader.

I think it was pretty clear that the remark applied to the subject of the thread. You are the one who brought black athletes from other sports into it.

Let's assume the guy wasn't a complete idiot, and was doing this with medical supervision -- e.g. with a "longevity" doctor. Small doses of EPO, even with insurance, could easily hit $1000 a month. You need blood tests, to make sure your hematocrit hasn't gone so high that you will die in your sleep. You need to pay the doc, of course. It's also entirely plausible he was on other medications like HGH.

It's highly unlikely the riders were doping for financial gain. They almost certainly spent more on the drugs than they received in prizes.

Actually based on the fact that we're saying it wasn't clear it's safe to assume it wasn't clear.

I brought in black athletes from other sports because doping in sports isn't limited to 'type A middle class white males.' Your inability to express yourself or stick to one point isn't the fault of those who don't understand what you're trying to say.

I honestly doubt he was going through all that. Indications are that he wasn't. It's still expensive and he still wasn't doing it for the money. It, apparently, isn't that hard to buy or administer. I think enough is known now that there are probably tutorials online and the days of guys injecting so much that their blood congeals are over.

No kidding.
Can you imagine how boring the music of the '60's & '70's would have been w/o the doping.:(

Wow. "They'll never again be allowed to ride the GFNY." Harsh.

LOL......what if they played better because of it? Still not cheating, or a welcome respite to any unfortunate souls in the audience? :D

I still dont understand how "doping" (which is a completely subjective term) is considered cheating (in any sport). Is drinking a cup of coffee before a ride considering cheating? Thats doping after all. What about gels or protein supplements?

Then you get into the ridiculous health argument that one guy is more willing to sacrifice his health for a competitive advantage, but that can be said for training in general. If you train much harder than the next guy and push your body too far for a competitive advantage, you could place yourself at risk for a number of health issues.

Competitive sports are just that, competitive. If you want to be the best, you have to do what the other guy is not willing to do.

The post in its entirety is too stupid to address. There are rules. Certain things break the rules. This broke the rules.

They should ban Hendrix from Amazon and iTunes. Same goes for Pink Floyd. Give the musicians who were not cheating a chance to compete. Happily, I don't think that even under the strictest regime there'd be any chance we'd be stuck with pcad.

I'm still waiting with bated for the Garmin 950 which provides mobile PED testing so we know people aren't cheating on their Strava segments...

You indicated doping wasn't worth it and a joke for amateur races. The implication is that there are some races that are worth doping for. If not amateur I assumed you were talking about pros. What races are worth doping for then?