T11
 

search before I posted had zero results.

Campy has been running this wide of a cassette body for ~15 years without wheel issues. I'm not saying they won't change to 135, but don't ecxpect wheel issues due to 11spd alone.

i really liked the traditional look of the old hubs (great for classic builds) but the new engraving on the black hubs probably looks stellar with a black rim and silver spokes.

just saw the new silver hubs. Still perfect for classic builds.

I didn't show the hub shells, but it's this one:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...hub?highlight=

If I wasn't so in love with how easy tubeless is with Fulcrum/Campy 2 way fit, I would love to get a wheelset with these. Very attractive hubs.

I'd like a 1x13 gear setup on 145mm, but I think the chain angles would get wonky...

I've always thought it was an issue. The extreme dish is a big compromise... and it keeps getting worse.

I understand it is weaker, but in practice how many campy compatible wheels have you seen fail? An issue isn't an issue if there is no issue.

it also isn't getting worse. Shimano is just finally matching the same dish campy started using in 1997 with 9 speed. Many aftermarket wheels that offer campy free hubs won't need any further dish.

shimano has gone a step further and it looks like their prebuit wheels will use triplet lacing to even out the tension. Something campy has been doing for quite some time.

They don't fail that often because other changes are made to compensate. More spokes, heavier spokes, triplet lacing, offset rims, etc... which add weight.

Among people who build their own wheels and are not aware of the extreme dish of C11, there are a higher percentage of issues with it than S10.

Meh. The only issues I've had with Campy compatible wheels (10 or 11 speed) have been prebuilts. And those issues haven't been dish related.

That's a...peculiar...way of looking at the causal relationships here.

Campy used excessive dish because they lacked the capability to fit as many "speeds" in the same amount of space that Shimano achieved. So they opted for a crude solution in the effort to keep up with those clever engineers in Osaka; they just dished the wheel further to jam cogs in at the size that their machining was capable of producing.

Then, the lacing patterns which you feel Shimano is "finally matching", along with the wheel dish, was a necessary evil to overcome a compromise in the geometry of the design.

The only reason Campy led the 11 speed charge was because when their miniaturization capacity finally caught up with Shimano, they had some extra room left over from their previous attempts to keep abreast of Shimano's technology. Additionally, they knew that had to do something, since the word was already out that Shimano had built Di2.

It has been decades since Campy made a real "innovation" of their own. The story of the bicycle industry since Shimano's creation of indexed shifting, compressionless housing, and integrated levers has been Campy's initial snubbing of Shimano's technology, only to frantically mimic it when their market shares eroded and their sponsored teams started to grouse.

But to say that Shimano is "finally matching" the geometry of Campy wheels is to completely mischaracterize the technological relationship between the two companies. Shimano never NEEDED to dish their wheels so much until they opted for 11 speed as well.

Don't be silly. There have been lots of things Campy has done right long before Shimano, even while being a fraction of the size as a company. They had an electronic shifting product YEARS before Shimano but let the larger company prove the market.

You are right that Campagnolo was quite the innovator, long before Shimano. It is after Shimano came onto the market in such a big way that Campy began its decline. You are both missing the point and proving it at the same time.

Incorrect. Campy got the freehub spline pattern right, front derailleur trim, rear multi-shift, under tape cable routing, 11 speed, and carbon component fabrication right well before Shimano. It's somewhat telling that for weight and functionality, Shimano's top current mechanical group (DA 7900) is about on par with Campy's FIFTH level group (Centaur). In fact, Di2 may be seen as a desperate attempt by a company falling behind its main competitors' techonology to regain its edge.

Awesome...a cool thread about White Industries new hubs turns into a Campy Shimano debate.

Sad.

The geometry isn't what it used to be for sure. Only time will tell if this will result in bigtime issues for me or not. Sure I have built tons of Campy in that configuration already with no issues, but let's face it the volume of campy isn't even remotely close to the volume of Shimano. Even in a small operation like mine they are simply orders of magnitude apart from each other. The odds of there being an issue arrise are much greater to be seen now than before. That is all.

You can call it crude and evil but until you can point to an actual problem I don't care. I'm not trying to get into a shim/campy debate, the point is many wheels, not just campy, have been dished this far for more than a decade. I've been riding wheels like this for years with no issue.

T11
 

might as well bring this foward....

In the late 90's/early 00's I had these hubs on Open Pro rims. Wish they still made them.
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/files/wi_rear_859.jpg

Hi Rob! I come across this thread while looking for replaced cartridge bearings for my WI H2/H3 hubs. How do you or your customers like the new Enduro's Angular contact cartridge bearings? How do they compare to typical Radial cartridge bearings in terms of performance and durability? Anything I need to be aware of when installing new Angular contact cartridge bearings? Thanks!

So one hub works with Shimano/SRAM 8/9/10/11 and also Campy 8/9/10/11?

They perform as expected. FWIW - I just built 2 sets for my Enduro sales rep. These are his own. He sent me bearings to use. He sent the angular contact.

When using angular contact you need to apply a small amount of preload. - More than regular radial bearing setup with White, but not a ton. You can do it by hand but can be a bit like needing 4 hands when doing it. I have a homemade tool for doing it but as of now can not share that here.

Same hub, axle, endcap. Swap freehub driver and you're in business.

I own both brands of hubs (disc versions.) The Chris King hubs have an excellent engagement system, but you pay for that with hubs that don't roll as fast. The White Industries hubs, on the other hand, are a little heavier, only come in black and polished silver (I've heard they're producing red ones now?), but they roll super smoothly (i.e., fast!) For mountain biking, I love Chris King. For road cycling, my personal choice is White Industries.

You need an extra freehub. But if you are swapping between S11 and C11 drivetrains you will find that the spacing is nearly identical... so you can just get a S11 freehub and S11 cassettes and use the wheel on a C11 bike and vice versa.

I wonder how they'd look on this bike.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...allion1vk4.jpg

That's why most hubs have radial bearings and not angular. The WIs with radial bearings are super smooth once the grease and seals break-in.

Angular bearings generally need to be pre-loaded to work properly, and that causes extra friction and wear. They are good when you have high thrust loads in addition to radial, but I'm not really seeing the benefit on hubs.

And the WI hubs don't have a preload mechanism. You could rig something like Rob has to add a preload before you cinch down the set screws, but the hub isn't *designed* to be preloaded. Actually it is designed to make preloading damn near impossible, which is best for radial bearings.

Oh... forgot to add that only the two most outer bearings on WI hubs see any thrust loads whatsoever. It would be really silly to use angular bearings anywhere else in the rear hub.

Indeed. And unwelcome. :notamused: