White Industries
 

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Yeah it's the T11. I have 50 sets of them right now and have been building with them for a while. They no longer make the h2/h3 hub. I made a thread here about it a few weeks back.

Those look nice.

Cool.

Nice. I have a wheelset built with H2/H3 hubs. I love it.

But Shimano hubs are still my favorite.

Nice looking hubs. I'm assuming they are for 11 speed. :( for me.

For my own reference, may I ask why?

Add a spacer and done.

I just had a go-every-where wheelset built with silver White Industries hubs MI5 front hubs and silver White Industries T11 H3 rear hubs, HED. C2 rims, silver Sapim CX-Ray spokes (front and rear 32spokes laced3x), silver brass nipples. I have been riding around salt farms where there are salt crystals and gravel on the roads and thus wanted a set with brass nipples. This wheelset probably will come in at 1620 grams and probably will be bomb-proof.

We decided that the silver White Industries hubs MI5 front hubs would be a nice match for the silver White Industries T11 H3 rear hubs.

My other training+go-every-where wheelset was built with black White Industries hubs H2/H3 hubs, HED. C2 rims, black Sapim CX-Ray spokes (f28lacedx2, r32lacedx3), black DT-Swiss Hex Pro-lock alloy nipples. These weighed in at 1560 grams. I am using Vittoria Ultralight Butyl inner tubes and Vittoria Open Pave CG 24mm tires (that expanded to 25.7mm on the wheel at 100 psi front and 105 psi rear). I have put on 4000 miles in 6 months and riden everywhere in Thailand, including salt farm roads with plenty of salt crystals and gravel from the salt trucks (and am now worried about the alloy nipples). They have remained as true, straight, and solid as the first day that I received them - knock on wood. I will probably have them measured for trueness at 10K miles. I weigh 200lbs.

Mark

Those are nice indeed.

Incorrect. They are 8/9/10 and 11 speed. Not only that they are Campy spaced. But an extra freehub (not cheap) and you can switch back and forth without having to re-dish the wheel.



They're hot, but a lot of people haven't been in favor of the new engraving. They are still new, but I have seen so fricking many of them in the last few weeks that they are already seeming everyday to me.

I personally like the engraved branding. Looks cool.

I agree. They look good and look great when built up.

So do you prefer these over say.....Chris King?

While marginally heavier, the flange spacing on Shimano hubs has always been absolutely wonderful for balanced rear wheels. Run the trig on it, or use Damon Rinard's spocalc, and you'll see. Even without running the math, a cursory glance at the spacing compared to other hubs will show you in broad strokes how well designed the geometry has always been.

I suppose that will change with 11 speed though. :(

The real selling point for me is the "old-school" cup-and-cone bearings. Shimano has the largest R&D budget in the bicycle world, and has a history of pushing innovations - even unwanted ones - onto the market. And yet, they persist with these bearings. Why?

Bottom line; they simply work better, and in the hands of a good mechanic can be exceptionally well adjusted. AND, traditionally bearings perform equally well under angular-loads as they do under loads purely in-line with the bearing plane. In other words, cartridge bearings protest a little bit anytime the wheel is tipped out of a purely vertical axis. Cup-and-cone bearings don't care.

I build all my own wheels. I have White Industries hubs on one set. Shimano all around for the rest.

I've taken that line of thought for a long time, but have recently been changing my thoughts on that.

It's similar to Chris King poo-poo ing internal headsets. That was a horrible move for them and many years later they are trying to find ways back into that market without looking like hypocrites.

FWIW - Chris king hubs are also cartridge bearing.

...same with Phil Wood...

....and DT and Alchemy and White, and Tune, etc...

Turns out its because they work, and work well. I can blow out a bearing and simply replace it and not lose the hub. With cup and cone once the bearing surface is worn out it's done.

the reason I have so many T11 hubs right now is because I am fitting them with Enduro's new Angular contact cartridge bearing. They are essentially cup and cone now without the bearing surfaces that will wear out like Shimano's will. With the tool I designed I can now perfectly set the preload by simply using a skewer....much easier than cup and cone adjustments ever where (having done those for the first 20 years I worked on bikes)

So...old thinking. Doesn't hold true in reality.

Should be easy enough to figure out with the specs, which I can't find on a quick Google but I'm sure someone here has.

You sound like a crew chief ;)

Shimano is 18/36mm same as the WI hubs used to be. Alchemy is far superior with 19.6/37mm... and a 131mm axle.

Cup and cone have greater resistance, and if you ever pit or damage the races it's new hub time...

The one thing I don't like about the new hubs is the spacing (offset). Now that S11 cassettes are just as wide as C11, it's even more important to squeeze out every last fraction of a mm on the DS offset. WI bumped up the axle width to 131mm (like Alchemy), but instead of adding an extra 1mm to the NDS cap, they added it to the DS cap! The H3 Campy used to be 16/38mm but could have likely been 17/37 without causing problems (Alchemy's C hub has 18.0mm DS spacing). The T11 is now 15.5/38.5... which really compromises wheel strength. With the 131mm axle they should be able to run 17.5/36.5 easily (maybe even 18/36) which would be a big improvement.

I wonder how long it will be before we see the next frame respacing?

I wonder how much dish, how many cogs, and how much space can be added before the design just becomes ridiculous?

Goodness, I'm starting to turn into a retro-grouch.

Frame respacing pushes the crank Q factor out also... assuming you want to keep the chainrings and cassette centered. I doubt most people would notice 5mm (2.5mm on each side) though.

IMO 135mm is long overdue. 11 speed on 130 (or 131mm) really compromises wheel strength. And I really don't see the point of 11 gears either. I ride S9 (with C11 shifters) and though I live in a mountainous area, I don't feel that I suffer from a lack of gears.

Fwiw, I have a wheelset with H2/H3 and one with CK hubs. I'm a slow fat guy but can't really tell much difference between the two. Both are great sets and ride well. I like CK because they have color choices beyond black and silver. I think if that didn't matter I'd just stick with WI as I believe they are cheaper and seem just as good. Can't speak to the cost of new ones though.

Assuming gear width and spacing stayed the same, how many cogs could be on a cassette before a standard double wouldn't be able to hit n-1 of the cogs without rubbing? I'd assume there's a limit to how wide the rear could get to accommodate more gears before you'd start losing them as well.

It's already an issue with some frames. It is time to change the standard before it gets pushed any further. Luckily we won't have to wait long as these will easily integrate in with the road to disc brake movement going on right now. Writing is on the wall and has been for a few years.

Does that mean I should wait until disk brakes and frame design catch up before I buy another PSIMET wheelset?