I have been on my CR 1 Pro for a couple of weeks. Finally figured out shifting technique for the most part.

A question about hills: from what I have read at high cadence you use slow twitch fibers -more aerobic and at low cadence you use fast twitch more "powerful" muscle fibers, correct?

So on a hill climb is it better technique to gradually shift into lower gears as you slow up and keep faster cadence or do you stay in a higher gear and muscle your way to the top at a lower cadence?

i suppose if I rode in the higher gear I would rely more on power mucle fibers and build muscle as opposed to spinning up the hill and building aerobic capacity.

Is my logic correct??

Do most riders alternate technique to get both benefits ?

I imagine on some hills you have no choice but to gear down and spin due to grade of the hill and /or length of climb.

FWIW : my bike has double chain ring and there is one hill I absolutely dread. I now see the point of a triple chain ring but I'm thinking the double gives me a great workout.

I spin until my breathing gets labored and then stand to transfer the pain to my legs to recover some breath. Probably some better techniques but it works for me. I also peddle with my butt while spinning by sliding back in the saddle when sitting.

Spinning loads the aerobic system more.

Pushing loads the muscles more.

If you go the same speed on the same hill in the same conditions - so say you're climbing a steady grade and you shift into a much higher or lower gear without changing speed - then you use the same amount of power. I couldn't wrap my head around this until I got a power meter. Perceived effort is much higher when pushing a big gear but given the same speed you're not doing any more work.

This means that once you blow up you basically go the same power no matter what gear you use, as long as you can stay upright. Again this is something I couldn't accept until I could measure it.

If you're very fit aerobically then you should spin more. If the hill is short enough to get over without going too anaerobic then a big gear works better.

As far as other stuff goes there's a decent rule of thumb that if you stand on a longer climb then you stand 2/3 of the time, sit 1/3. If you are sitting a lot then sit 2/3 and stand 1/3.

When you stand up shift up one gear. When you sit shift down one gear. This is if you're changing position when the grade/conditions are not changing. You pedal at a lower cadence standing.

When standing the hoods work well. When sitting the hoods or the tops.

When standing and rocking the bike your torso should go in basically a straight line. Your bottom bracket will too. Your wheels will make slight left-right swerves a few inches total. Your bike should do most of the moving, your body/torso should be going in a relative straight line.

Focus on spinning faster when sitting and spinning. If you think "pedal harder" it usually results in pushing down past the bottom of the pedal stroke. When thinking "pedal faster" you tend to have a more efficient pedal stroke. Focus on a full pedal stroke when standing (I focus on pulling up and over the top of the pedal stroke).

Hope this helps
cdr

Big help.

I'd add : Do NOT put your weight on the handlebar when you go out of the saddle. Keep the weight on your hand as light as you can, or even PULL the handlebar. It helps getting more weight on the pedals.

for me it's about surving the climb and recovering for the next bit of roadway. if you've got a series of rollers it's different than 1 killer hill. also what's on the other side matters a lot, will it be a descent that you can coast down or a continued extended slow climb? a level road? some climbs you can expend yourself more on and others you'll need to conserve and just survive. it helps to get a regular route. then you can experiement and find out what you are good at and what you need work with. after some time you can do some climbing out of the saddle. a good rule of thumb is if you think you want to get out of the saddle first upshift 2 gears. mashing isn't good for anything, you're gonna get a leg workout, there's no need to crush in a gear that's too high.

My advice, and what has worked for me:

Hills are about having a plan, and executing the plan. Decide whether you are going to spin the hill or mash the hill before it starts. Are you going to build speed before to carry you over, or be steady throughout? Decide before the hill decides for you.

Rear shifting works fine under load, front not so much. Decide which ring you want to be in before you are in the death mash. If the hill is going to require your small front ring, be on it early, even if it means you are on smaller cogs in the back. It is easier on the system to bail out just on the cassette. The only times I have ever thrown the chain is when bad planning forced a front shift under high load.

Stand up with a purpose. If you are alternating randomly between standing and sitting you may be wasting more than you gain. Stand to pick up speed, and raise your cadence to a spot where you can get sitting and spinning again. Stand to finish a hill, and crest strong.

My final thought: hills should hurt. Spinning up a hill is a misnomer. If you maintain 90 cadence over a hill, you probably have geared down so low that you are crawling. I know many folks who spin up every hill, and usually the key to success is a mixture of mash and spin.

Good advice so far. I will add a few more of my thoughts. Shifting is an important part of hill climbing. You want to anticipate the gear you need to be in and shift just before you "need" to. This will result in maintaining a high cadence. It is also a good idea to alternate standing and sitting on long climbs to keep from running out of steam. Also I assume you are using clipless pedals, if not this will make all the difference while climbing because you can spin faster and pull up on the pedals. Last piece of advice is to engage core by pulling back/up on the handle bars with each pedal stroke. This mans that as you push down on the right pedal you pull back/up on the right side of the handle bar.

Well, it all depends.

As a beginner, your primary goal may be simply to get to the top of a hill and down the other side without keeling over, having to stop, etc. In that case, I think good technique is mostly about figuring out how to tackle hills without going too hard too early and exhausting yourself. Where shifting is concerned, much is made about spinning a low gear, but as CDR points out this loads your cardiovascular system more and you will probably find it more helpful on longer hills to switch between a higher cadence while seated and a lower cadence while standing. But what's most important is limiting your initial effort to something you can sustain. Again, CDR explained this: if you are on a slope of a certain steepness and going a certain speed, you are producing the same power regardless of what gear you a using. The only way to save energy, if you are going harder than you can sustain, is to slow down. I would recommend starting a longish hill at a pace that feels too easy. You will likely find, by the midway point, that it doesn't feel too easy after all.

When you get stronger and more experienced, you may find that you can definitely get over all the hills that you come upon, and now you want to get up them as quickly as possible. Here, I think that discussion of sitting and spinning vs. standing is even less relevant. No matter what you do, it's going to be hard, and you'll be switching back and forth depending upon slope, how your legs feel and so on. It really is all down to pacing, when it comes to getting up a hill in the shortest amount of time. And the right pacing really does take experience to learn, but once again, it's about not going too hard too early and blowing up halfway up the climb.

Sit to rest the legs, stand to rest the heart.

Nicely said.

I miss climbing. I used to have 2 killers on my home commute. over the years I rode them and mastered them I also went through 3 bikes so re-mastering them with each bike was interesting. long after I settled on my 3rd bike and totally mastering them, I was beginning my ascent of the 1st and had gotten to the point where I liked to get out of the saddle (about 1/3 the way up I would get out of the saddle for about 1/3 of the hill) and some school girls were slowing in the other direction for a light and a couple of them stuck their heads out the windows and hooted (you know, "Woo Girls") and they shouted "Keep going, you can do it!" It was cute, I turned my head and smiled and just stayed on plan, confident of every inch of that climb.

As someone who does a lot of climbing (a million feet in my 2012 season), this is the best beginner advice in this thread. Learning to pace yourself is the most important thing. A longer term goal is to learn how to spin at a reasonable rpm on climbs. Even if you're going the same speed, at a faster rpm your leg muscles will last longer. That's important for the third or fourth big climb in a day.

Grinding up a climb in too high a gear won't make you faster. If your gearing does not let you tackle your climbs at a reasonable rpm, get lower gearing. I relearned that this year, discovering that I'm faster up climbs using a lower gear than I had been using. I had my best placings in climbing races this year.

When I stand I make the bike take a straight path even though I am rocking it side to side. It takes a tiny bit of pressure on the bars. If you let the bike take a track that is weaving back and forth you're making the hill longer. On hairpins the inner line is steeper but shorter than the outer. If you're hurting take the easier outer line. If you don't mind standing to get up a short harder section, take the inner line- its faster. Keep your head up and look up the hill. Don't focus right in front of your front wheel. You never know when something is going to come down the hill at you. Also, looking up shows you what you have in store so you can meter your effort.

All excellent info, IMO.

If there is one thing that will make you better at climbing, it's doing it a lot and pushing yourself when you do.

Thanks for all the great advice.

Does one strive for the 85-90 RPM cadence while climbing or is this not feasible?

I'm thinking as a new rider i must build an aerobic base. Likewise I must develop lower extremity strength. Assuming one has excellent leg strength is a 90 RPM cadence while climbing now an aerobic issue or is a combination of aerobic as well as strength as an incline is involved? Is this cadence even possible ?

Interesting stuff. Every day is an adventure.
RE: gearing. I have a double chainring. Not sure of gearing. I don't think i need to change it out as here in N. Florida we have nothing like Pike's Peak but it sure feels like it at times. Likely just need to get "bike fit'.

A lot of good, aforementioned advice. I'd like to add that one's weight should be considered when determining the proportion of time spent in or out of the saddle when climbing. I find that as a lighter rider, climbing out of the saddle (in a comfortable gear) often results in less effort than if I were to do the same speed in saddle.

+1000. It really can't be described more succinctly than that.

Climbing is a combination of both, particularly if the climb is lengthy. I'm from FL and I had no idea what climbing felt like until I moved to VA, and this past weekend I went out to the Skyline Drive/Shenandoah National Park area for a training camp. I'd never been on a real mountain before, and then 40 miles in to my first ride of the trip I was forced to chase my much lighter and faster teammates up a Category 1 climb (10 miles, 2,600 ft, average grade of around 5% with sustained stretches above 10%). Guess what? No matter how fit you are and how often you sit down or stand up, it's going to suck really hard. I'm lucky to have a compact and a wide cassette so my low gear is 34/30, which lets me spin ~90rpm at a very low speed (around 8mph). This means that once I blew up after trying to hang with the big kids, I was able to spin at a lower pace and catch my breath. One thing I found while on this trip is that it is really important to use a heart rate monitor so you know you're not going too hard too soon.

If 85-90 RPM is comfortable and you are able to sustain a speed that allows it, sure. But, a steep enough hill simply can't be climbed at the kind of speed that would allow a cadence that high. Whether your effort is aerobic or not has to do with your total power output as a percentage of your maximum output, it's not really related to your cadence. Your muscles must do more work for each contraction at a lower cadence, but your effort is still mostly aerobic. As far as building a base as a new rider, the best thing you can do is just ride a lot. At this stage, there's really no specific training that will make you stronger faster than that.

Wait, you have climbs in Florida?

It depends on your physiology. I have team-mates who climb faster than me using 60-70 rpm. But if you watch the pros in the TdF, most of them are spinning at a decent rate.
Experiment and see what works for you.

As always, solid advice from cdr. The only other bit of advice I would add is to try climbing seated on the nose of the saddle and shift back to the rivets once in a while to give isolated muscles a break. Works well for me on extended climbs anyways.

The only other tidbit I haven't seen is to keep your upper body relaxed when seated. Breathe. Don't death grip the bars. I have noticed at times when struggling on a hill that my chest and shoulders are clenched, and intentionally relaxing brings immediate change.

Best thing I ever did in terms of climbing was start riding a single speed bike. When your only two options are sitting and standing, you learn to be more aggressive with hills, and you improve your out-of-saddle technique. I still ride geared bikes too, but I learned climbing on my SS.

Do that hill you dread often enough and you will soon think it's routine.

Long, sustained hills are as much a mental exercise as a physical one. There's lots of good advice above, so I won't belabor the point. Just go ride some hills!

Everything you're saying here comports with my experience. I always take the inside line on righthanders, etc. But some folks on here are saying that standing rests their heart. That's the opposite of my experience. I've only climbed with one person who was faster out of the saddle on a climb of over 1000'. At the same power, i.e. same speed, on a long climb, my HR is much higher out of the saddle than in. I get up from time to time to rest my legs, but have to sit before I start to blow up. I do long seated climbs at about a 78 cadence, maybe 55 standing - I don't look. I shift up one ring in front and 2 in back to stand on a long climb. Switching to a big gear like that saves my HR from climbing so much. For me, standing is mostly about stretching my legs and using different muscles, a change-up.

I know different physiologies respond differently to different cycling modalities, but this is my experience of doing mult-pass rides. Short climbs are of course a completely different story.