coasting 

did you go for a test sail before you bought the boat?

Herbie53

Yeah, it but it really did not tell me much other than the thing floats. It took years to learn all the ins and outs.

Campag4life

I like this post. A newb starting out...likely the same in any endeavor...can't make a good decision right out of the gate. Even with help and advice, a new rider can only get in the ballpark...and a short test ride will tell very little. For a first road bike...perhaps best to start with a low end bike for general sizing unless you have a lot of money and it doesn't matter. Perhaps start with running your body size nos. through an on line fit calculator.
Thing is...fit is a bit of a moving target and to me frame geometry far and away is the most important decision in buying a bike. I can live with many differences in groupsets, wheels, saddle, bars etc...although I have honed my preferences over time.

I am of the school that by the 3rd road bike..and definitely by the 10th a very good idea of best sizing is established by thousands of miles of riding...but it takes a while and many will seek a bit more aggressive position in terms of reach to the bars as their cycling improves.
I will share a further irony I have discovered among some I have known that have dabbled in cycling. They quit before they got good. The reason is...they never learned to ride a road bike well. Their sizing was off...weight distribution was poor on the bike and they found cycling to be painful. Cycling long miles is as much fitness as technique and it starts with a good fit...which is only achieved in my experience with a lot of practice and trial and error.

hhnngg1

Despite the truth and agreeing with all of the above about 'not knowing for real' through a test ride and really the only true reliable measure being thousands of miles on that bike in the saddle, I still think it's crucially important to get on that pricey bike you're going to buy, even if you do all the research and know every little last thing about it.

It's not much different than any business investment or high end purchase. I consider it a basic 'due diligence' portion of any hi-end purchase. You gotta kick the tires a bit, make sure it's the real deal, if only for peace of mind. I'd say the same thing about cars, homes, boats, etc. You probably won't know how the long-run situation for you will be until you actually own it long-term. But you're taking at least some risk if you buy sight unseen, even if a small one, and most dealers/merchants feel the same way - they'll want to have an items or proprety seen by their very own eyes and reviewed even briefly before appraising it or purcahsing it.

bikerjp

If I'm a somewhat experienced rider and have somewhat of an idea about what I'm looking for in a high end bike I don't really care what your background is or what the pros ride. None of that tells me anything. Tell me all about your favorite beer and all I'll know is if it's likely something I'd like or not. I won't know for sure until I try it. Before I drop $4k or more on a bike I want to at least check it out. I undertand that most shops will not have every model and every size but they better have at least one I can tool around on a bit. I don't care if you tell me I won't learn anything because that isn't true. I will learn something. At the very least I'll learn if the bike is in the ballpark of what I'm looking for. Caad9 to evo maybe not important. Caad9 to Roubaix I'd want to ride it regardless of what I know about it. I test rode a trek a while back and knew within the first crack in the road that I didn't want that bike.

Sidney Porter

I have test paddled kayaks

Campag4life

I didn't...but I ain't no newb. An experienced cyclist who has owned a lot of bikes know the numbers and can 'virtualize' the next bike. I went from racey geometry Look to Roubaix, knowing that I wanted a higher handlebar. I could replicate this position on the Look with riser stem. No regrets...but I know every dimension and angle I like. Experience is the best teacher as in many things. Starting out it takes a while...and a few bikes...sometimes going back to something they didn't know was best.

StanSeven

I see you're a sailor. You might beat me on the roads around Annapolis on your bike, but I'm a power boater and I will fly past you on the water.

roadwarrior

If i am buying something like this, the first thing I do as a customer is ask the person about their experience and background. So I guess you don't care about that because you know better. No problem. I've sold several very expensive bikes to people that knew what they were doing. Many ask about knowledge and background. If you don't I don't offer.

As i have said several times, your mileage my vary. Not everyone is a customer for every store.

I never said the rider could not check it out. But we have a way of doing that. Ymmv.

Btw...at the price points we are throwing about here I think the shortest time i have spent with a customer was two hours....three is probably more like it.

roadwarrior

Exactly.

Herbie53

ha.. I have not sailed much in the last couple years. The big boat is just about sold. I do still have an A-Cat. It's an 18 foot carbon fiber thing that weighs 165#'s ready to sail and will sail speed of the wind up to about 20 knots. After that (and in my case often before), the wind wins and things like this happen.

Campag4life

That looks like a blast. If the boat is carbon...what material is the sail made from?
What does a boat like that cost?

StanSeven

I know all about cats. My first boat was a 15 foot cat. Then I went with an 18 foot similar to yours. But at 20 knots you might give my power boat a run. Maybe I should be bragging that its easier for me to go to the bathroom and keep drinks cold.

JakiChan

Just out of curiosity, have you bought cars without having test-driven them? My partner did. (His Civic died, and he said "bring me another white one".)

I've found that "high-end" car shopping can also be like how you describe, because the sales people tend to know the product better than, say, a Honda dealer. That being said, I still test drive cars before buying them as well, no matter what Car and Driver tells me about it.

Lasrsktr

Racing sails are usually made from a carbon kevlar mix...

bikerjp

You missed the point. I didn't say I wouldn't be interested in your knowledge about the bike. It's your knowledge about how it will ride FOR ME that I'm less interested in. I glad so many of you are such bike experts that you can just eyeball a geo chart and know how it will ride. Before spending my hard earned money I want to check it out.

oldbobcat

Shops like that can do well in places like Boulder and Plano, but for the rest of us . . .

In nearby Longmont there was a new shop in a strip mall at the edge of a lot of new development. They'd only deal with mid-range and up road and mountain bikes, and they were out of business in a couple years. That shouldn't have happened. In the middle of the day the streets were filled with young moms running, walking, and riding bikes, often with kids in tow, and the middle school bike racks were full--of bikes bought at the Trek, Specialized, Giant, and Raleigh stores across town and, of course, Wal-Mart.

StanSeven

I wasn't going to post anymore on this thread but I just ran across something interesting. Its an LBS ad in a local cycling newsletter. I brought a bike from them several years ago after spending months looking and test riding bikes. They told me to take the bike home over a three day holiday weekend because a short test ride isn't enough. Their ad I just saw said they are one of the top 35 retailers in the US six years in a row.

The next bike I brought was from one of the best shops in the country. I wanted to do a quick ride and one of the owners offered me extra clothes so I could ride longer and be comfortable.

Both stores are very successful and I assume that's largely due to them providing what potential customers want and need. I don't know about other customers but I wouldn't buy a bike from someplace that didn't allow me to test ride.

As others pointed out, test rides are expected with just about everything else that moves - cars, boats, motorcycles, etc.

MinnMan

I'm sure it's much harder to run a business without carrying one or more of the major brands and carrying products that span the range of price points, but it can be done. I know a couple of shops that sell only non-major brands with an emphasis on higher end bikes and seem to be keeping their doors open, but they have strong connections to the local cycling/racing community and know their clientelle well. In one case, they also have additional revenue streams (running spin classes, selling exercise equipment) that gets them through the long slow Minnesota winter.

I was surprised in the previous post that the list of majors included Felt. I don't know the stats, but I would have thought that a Felt distributorship would not produce anywhere near the volume one would get from Trek/Specialized/Giant/Cannondale.

MinnMan

For example, this place https://flandersbros.com has been open for 40 years, catering chiefly to racers and enthusiasts. At the moment they sell only Ridley, Bianchi, Focus, Time, and Serotta. (It doesn't happen to be one of the LBS that I frequent.)

So it can be done

roadwarrior

As a matter of fact, the last six cars I leased I did not drive beforehand. I didn't need to. I leased the first one which was on the dealer floor and the next five I just called the sales rep I worked with and told him to set me up. If there was a problem, I had a RELATIONSHIP with the individual and they would take care of me.

I have a company supplied vehicle now. They gave me a list of what I could order, and I did. Couple months later, there it was.

roadwarrior

It comes from many years of being given a bike that we would ride that season, getting ti set up and racing it. They really did not care what I thought. I recognize that does not work for most people, but I truly think that there is too much based on that test ride.

Anyway, a buddy of mine bought a car. He drove it three miles. That was his test drive.

roadwarrior

Absolutely. Rolex does very well selling ten and twelve thousand dollar watches, too. There are a lot of business models for shops...one friend of mine owns one that is similar to the one you linked. He is a dentist by profession, former professional rider. Not really interested in how much money he can make from the shop, it's just a hobby to him. In our case, on a summer Saturday we can do between $35 and $50,000...in a three day sale three quarters of a million dollars. My friend has been in business for 20 years. He just is not really focused on profit so much as having some fun. So there is sometimes more than meets the eye.

We also sponsor six bike teams...so bigger sales can be put back into the sport. It just depends on how you want to run the business.

roadwarrior

and that would describe the vast majority of shops. the other shops in town do not want to mess with the hybrids. We do. Because when that overweight guy wants to ride one, then gets fit, then gets more fit guess who he comes to as he is moving up? Which is a lot of how we can do close to ten million in sales.

StanSeven

I'm curious. Do you and your buddy drive cars equivalent to EVO bikes?