Bike Buying Odyssey (very long)
02-07-05, 11:15 AM
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If anyone is interested, here is the rather long story about how a "re-newbie's" purchased his first next generation bike (with a few editorial comments thrown in). It's rather long...but you've been warned!
It really started early last week: I purchased a new bike on eBay, from "chicabike", based primarily on a few positive posts that appeared here. The bike was a Dawes "Lightning", and it arrived on Friday afternoon. It was DIRT CHEAP ($280...which included delivery), so I guess I should have remembered that old adage, something about getting what you paid for.
Frankly, I should have known something was not right when I lifted the box to bring it into the house: it was HEAVY. I checked the shipping weight on the label: 44 lbs!!
And, as I suspected, that was about 90% bike, the box itself weighing about 5-6 lbs. So, I thought, a 38 lb road bike??!! My last "10 speed" was roughly 22 lbs.
Still, I opened the box and removed the bike: It was in fine condition, nicely packed...but it was literally a STEEL MONTROSITY! Everything on that bike was heavy...and I mean everything. I put it together, lifted it a couple of times, and realized right there that it was going back. I needed more bike - and MUCH less weight. (Side note: I contacted "chicabike" and she was very accomodating. In fact, according to her, I was the FIRST person to EVER ask to return a bike.
We've exchanged a few e-mails, and Liz (her real name) seemed well-informed and very much interested in customer satisfaction. I intend to keep her in mind should I ever decide to move up).
Anyway, I figured that it was time to actually go out and pound the pavement, i.e. vists LBSs (plural), ask questions, see, feel, and maybe even RIDE the bike that I would be buying. Such a concept, eh? So, Saturday morning (after carefully packaging my ill-fated Dawes), I visited three bike shops. I told each of the sales guys that I was a old roadie, looking to "un retire" - and that the absence of shifters on the downtube was making me nervous. These young men - younger than some of my underware, I'm certain - were all very nice, seemed knowledgable enough, and were quite polite (though I caught a snicker or two when I talked about downtube shifters, "cro-molly" frames, "sew-ups", and double chainrings).
What I learned:
1) ALLuminum (misspelling intentional): Seems LordOpie is facing an uphill battle with his stock in the steel industry. Just about EVERY bike frame was made out of aluminum. Come to think of it, I didn't even look at a bike that didn't have an aluminum frame. Seems the increase in price (from entry level to moderate...and above) was mostly tied up in the componetry and the wheels.
2) Sora! Sora! Sora!: Sorry for the play on the old movie title, but Sora was everywhere at my price range ($700 and DOWN). One bike I looked at in this price actually came with 105 components (two steps up from Sora??), but I wasn't at all familiar with the manufacturer, so I shied away. Some of the bikes (I looked at Giant, Felt, Specialized, and a couple of off-brands), actually came with brake lever extensions!!!! Even in my day, brake lever extensions were just slightly above reflectors on the Dorkiness Bicycling Evolutionary Scale.
3) Triple your pleasure. Or, in my case, DISpleasure. Good luck finding an entry-level bike with a double. Just doesn't seem to be one out there. In fact, this appears to be by popular demand. If what I was being told was true (and I tend to believe that it was), I guess the bike manufacturers got tired of consumers asking to have their doubles CHANGED OUT to a triple, so they just started making triples on ALL bottom-end bikes. And the cost of having a triple changed out to a double (a question that elicited one of those aforementioned snickers) was prohibitive...in other words, I might as well have added the extra $$$ it would have cost to have this done to the $700 and purchased a bike that already came with a double.
4) The more speeds the better. 27 speeds!!! Not even dwelling on the complications of cross-chaining (the bike even came with a little pamphlet on which gearing to avoid!
), I really wonder just how many of those gears I'm actually gonna use...12, maybe 14? You gotta realize: I was a roadie that did some of his best riding on a 54-45 double, with a 13-23 cluster. Only the steepest hills thwarted me. 12 speeds; double chainring. It's really hard for me to warm up to 27 speeds. Oh, and I asked the sales person if I could have the small chainring removed. He said, yes, it could be done (for a cost, naturally; he indicated that it might require a derailleur switch out), but that I was the first person to ever ask to have that done! Usually, he said, it's the other way around.
5) Personal Rant: Brake lever shifters. If I ever meet the IDIOT who took shifters and moved them from the downtube to the brakes, please...somebody restrain me! In fact, since I remember doing most of my riding on the hoods, I actually PREFERRED the Sora setup, with the thumb thingy, to the higher-priced Shimano, with the even more ridiculous lever-thingy. I got a good laugh when the sales guy said that the brake shifters were better because it was harder to tell when your "opponent" was shifting gears! A strategic advantage!! 
In fact, that WAS something I used to look for when I rode against other people, i.e. if I noticed someone downshifting (on a steep hill, for example), when I didn't have to, I figured I "had them". Just the competitive part of me, I guess. Anyway, when I got the bike home, I took it for a spin (in sneakers, just around the block). I almost FELL twice...and the damn thing is STILL in the same gear that it was when it left the shop!!! So much for "It's just like riding a bicycle!"
Oh, what bike did I buy? A Specialize Allez, Sora componentry (of course). I upgraded to clipless pedals, and restocked my shelves (i.e., gloves, helmut, pedals, jersey, mini-tool kit, spare, stuff bag, pump). I paid $600.00 for the bike and bout $175.00 for everything else.
Ready or not, here I come.
It really started early last week: I purchased a new bike on eBay, from "chicabike", based primarily on a few positive posts that appeared here. The bike was a Dawes "Lightning", and it arrived on Friday afternoon. It was DIRT CHEAP ($280...which included delivery), so I guess I should have remembered that old adage, something about getting what you paid for.
Frankly, I should have known something was not right when I lifted the box to bring it into the house: it was HEAVY. I checked the shipping weight on the label: 44 lbs!!
And, as I suspected, that was about 90% bike, the box itself weighing about 5-6 lbs. So, I thought, a 38 lb road bike??!! My last "10 speed" was roughly 22 lbs. Still, I opened the box and removed the bike: It was in fine condition, nicely packed...but it was literally a STEEL MONTROSITY! Everything on that bike was heavy...and I mean everything. I put it together, lifted it a couple of times, and realized right there that it was going back. I needed more bike - and MUCH less weight. (Side note: I contacted "chicabike" and she was very accomodating. In fact, according to her, I was the FIRST person to EVER ask to return a bike.
We've exchanged a few e-mails, and Liz (her real name) seemed well-informed and very much interested in customer satisfaction. I intend to keep her in mind should I ever decide to move up).Anyway, I figured that it was time to actually go out and pound the pavement, i.e. vists LBSs (plural), ask questions, see, feel, and maybe even RIDE the bike that I would be buying. Such a concept, eh? So, Saturday morning (after carefully packaging my ill-fated Dawes), I visited three bike shops. I told each of the sales guys that I was a old roadie, looking to "un retire" - and that the absence of shifters on the downtube was making me nervous. These young men - younger than some of my underware, I'm certain - were all very nice, seemed knowledgable enough, and were quite polite (though I caught a snicker or two when I talked about downtube shifters, "cro-molly" frames, "sew-ups", and double chainrings).
What I learned:
1) ALLuminum (misspelling intentional): Seems LordOpie is facing an uphill battle with his stock in the steel industry.
Just about EVERY bike frame was made out of aluminum. Come to think of it, I didn't even look at a bike that didn't have an aluminum frame. Seems the increase in price (from entry level to moderate...and above) was mostly tied up in the componetry and the wheels.2) Sora! Sora! Sora!: Sorry for the play on the old movie title, but Sora was everywhere at my price range ($700 and DOWN). One bike I looked at in this price actually came with 105 components (two steps up from Sora??), but I wasn't at all familiar with the manufacturer, so I shied away. Some of the bikes (I looked at Giant, Felt, Specialized, and a couple of off-brands), actually came with brake lever extensions!!!! Even in my day, brake lever extensions were just slightly above reflectors on the Dorkiness Bicycling Evolutionary Scale.
3) Triple your pleasure. Or, in my case, DISpleasure. Good luck finding an entry-level bike with a double. Just doesn't seem to be one out there. In fact, this appears to be by popular demand. If what I was being told was true (and I tend to believe that it was), I guess the bike manufacturers got tired of consumers asking to have their doubles CHANGED OUT to a triple, so they just started making triples on ALL bottom-end bikes. And the cost of having a triple changed out to a double (a question that elicited one of those aforementioned snickers) was prohibitive...in other words, I might as well have added the extra $$$ it would have cost to have this done to the $700 and purchased a bike that already came with a double.
4) The more speeds the better. 27 speeds!!! Not even dwelling on the complications of cross-chaining (the bike even came with a little pamphlet on which gearing to avoid!
), I really wonder just how many of those gears I'm actually gonna use...12, maybe 14? You gotta realize: I was a roadie that did some of his best riding on a 54-45 double, with a 13-23 cluster. Only the steepest hills thwarted me. 12 speeds; double chainring. It's really hard for me to warm up to 27 speeds. Oh, and I asked the sales person if I could have the small chainring removed. He said, yes, it could be done (for a cost, naturally; he indicated that it might require a derailleur switch out), but that I was the first person to ever ask to have that done! Usually, he said, it's the other way around.5) Personal Rant: Brake lever shifters. If I ever meet the IDIOT who took shifters and moved them from the downtube to the brakes, please...somebody restrain me!
In fact, since I remember doing most of my riding on the hoods, I actually PREFERRED the Sora setup, with the thumb thingy, to the higher-priced Shimano, with the even more ridiculous lever-thingy. I got a good laugh when the sales guy said that the brake shifters were better because it was harder to tell when your "opponent" was shifting gears! A strategic advantage!! In fact, that WAS something I used to look for when I rode against other people, i.e. if I noticed someone downshifting (on a steep hill, for example), when I didn't have to, I figured I "had them". Just the competitive part of me, I guess. Anyway, when I got the bike home, I took it for a spin (in sneakers, just around the block). I almost FELL twice...and the damn thing is STILL in the same gear that it was when it left the shop!!! So much for "It's just like riding a bicycle!"Oh, what bike did I buy? A Specialize Allez, Sora componentry (of course). I upgraded to clipless pedals, and restocked my shelves (i.e., gloves, helmut, pedals, jersey, mini-tool kit, spare, stuff bag, pump). I paid $600.00 for the bike and bout $175.00 for everything else.
Ready or not, here I come.
Last edited by Smokey; 02-07-05 at 11:26 AM.
02-07-05, 11:39 AM
#2
Throw the stick!!!!
Congrats on the new bike! The bike you ended up with is a great entry level bike, I'm sure you will get many happy miles out of it.
If it helps any a lot of us young pups wouldn't know what to do with down tube shifters.
If it helps any a lot of us young pups wouldn't know what to do with down tube shifters.
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02-07-05, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Smokey
...sales guy said that the brake shifters were better because it was harder to tell when your "opponent" was shifting gears!...
You'll be happy with this bike, there's a lot of Allez owners on this board. Seems like a great, affordable bike.
Have fun!
Last edited by Serpico; 04-18-05 at 07:28 PM.
02-07-05, 12:34 PM
#5
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I went out on my new bike with Campy Ergo brake shifters for the first time yesterday and I must've reached to the down tube 10 times in an hour. Old habits. I'll get used to it. But it is a good feeling to NOT have to reach down to shift with the narrower jumps between gears, even with the wider range that 10 speeds gives you. I know I'll just use them more.
04-01-05, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Smokey
Frankly, I should have known something was not right when I lifted the box to bring it into the house: it was HEAVY. I checked the shipping weight on the label: 44 lbs!! And, as I suspected, that was about 90% bike, the box itself weighing about 5-6 lbs. So, I thought, a 38 lb road bike??!! My last "10 speed" was roughly 22 lbs.
Still, I opened the box and removed the bike: It was in fine condition, nicely packed...but it was literally a STEEL MONTROSITY! Everything on that bike was heavy...and I mean everything. I put it together, lifted it a couple of times, and realized right there that it was going back.
And, as I suspected, that was about 90% bike, the box itself weighing about 5-6 lbs. So, I thought, a 38 lb road bike??!! My last "10 speed" was roughly 22 lbs. Still, I opened the box and removed the bike: It was in fine condition, nicely packed...but it was literally a STEEL MONTROSITY! Everything on that bike was heavy...and I mean everything. I put it together, lifted it a couple of times, and realized right there that it was going back.
04-01-05, 01:04 PM
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I had contacted "chicabike" about one of her more expensive Dawes models. When asked about weight she replied as folows:
When I pointed out that she had never answered the question she replied that:
Originally Posted by chicabike
The dirty secret of the bike industry
All bike shops lie about weights
All manufacturers lie about weights
even magazines quote weights without pedals and reflectors
Mountain Bikes in bike shops all weight around 30 LBS - almost all of them except ultra lights like the Motobecane FLY TEAM (the lightest ATB made -- at 20lbs)
Road bikes all weigh very close by group
Sora bikes - around 23
Tiagra bikes - around 22
105 bikes around 20
Ultegra bikes around 19
DuraAce around 18
(and this surprises most people - steel road bikes and aluminum weigh almost exactly the same)
The lightest production road bike is the Motobecane Le Champion 10 - 14.1 LBS
it is a race only bike with carbon cranks, carbon wheels, glue on tires, etc
Lightest 'normal' bikes are the Fuji Team SuperLight and Motobecane Le Champion SL - both these are 15lbs
For fun, you might ask a few stores what their bikes weigh
then come back in with a fishing scale!! You will be shocked
This is a real problem to everyone in the industry
I wish that accurate weights were quoted and available
but 25 years ago Schwinn started quoting weights as much as 10 under actual
and everyone had to 'keep up'
All bike shops lie about weights
All manufacturers lie about weights
even magazines quote weights without pedals and reflectors
Mountain Bikes in bike shops all weight around 30 LBS - almost all of them except ultra lights like the Motobecane FLY TEAM (the lightest ATB made -- at 20lbs)
Road bikes all weigh very close by group
Sora bikes - around 23
Tiagra bikes - around 22
105 bikes around 20
Ultegra bikes around 19
DuraAce around 18
(and this surprises most people - steel road bikes and aluminum weigh almost exactly the same)
The lightest production road bike is the Motobecane Le Champion 10 - 14.1 LBS
it is a race only bike with carbon cranks, carbon wheels, glue on tires, etc
Lightest 'normal' bikes are the Fuji Team SuperLight and Motobecane Le Champion SL - both these are 15lbs
For fun, you might ask a few stores what their bikes weigh
then come back in with a fishing scale!! You will be shocked
This is a real problem to everyone in the industry
I wish that accurate weights were quoted and available
but 25 years ago Schwinn started quoting weights as much as 10 under actual
and everyone had to 'keep up'
Originally Posted by chicabike
for these reasons
and the fact that I never actually see the bikes I sell
I do not quote weights
I prefer to lose a sale than get involved in the lying game
if weight is a real big issue to any buyer; i suggest they buy from a store
and take a scale with them.
and the fact that I never actually see the bikes I sell
I do not quote weights
I prefer to lose a sale than get involved in the lying game
if weight is a real big issue to any buyer; i suggest they buy from a store
and take a scale with them.
04-01-05, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Smokey
These young men - younger than some of my underware, I'm certain
Great story - I also have a distrust for newfangled bike technologies, but I think I'll eventually have to go over to the dark side. I may be young, but my bike is from the good old days!
04-18-05, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Smokey
5) Personal Rant: Brake lever shifters. If I ever meet the IDIOT who took shifters and moved them from the downtube to the brakes, please...somebody restrain me! In fact, since I remember doing most of my riding on the hoods, I actually PREFERRED the Sora setup, with the thumb thingy, to the higher-priced Shimano, with the even more ridiculous lever-thingy. I got a good laugh when the sales guy said that the brake shifters were better because it was harder to tell when your "opponent" was shifting gears! A strategic advantage!! In fact, that WAS something I used to look for when I rode against other people, i.e. if I noticed someone downshifting (on a steep hill, for example), when I didn't have to, I figured I "had them". Just the competitive part of me, I guess. Anyway, when I got the bike home, I took it for a spin (in sneakers, just around the block). I almost FELL twice...and the damn thing is STILL in the same gear that it was when it left the shop!!! So much for "It's just like riding a bicycle!"
O
In fact, since I remember doing most of my riding on the hoods, I actually PREFERRED the Sora setup, with the thumb thingy, to the higher-priced Shimano, with the even more ridiculous lever-thingy. I got a good laugh when the sales guy said that the brake shifters were better because it was harder to tell when your "opponent" was shifting gears! A strategic advantage!! In fact, that WAS something I used to look for when I rode against other people, i.e. if I noticed someone downshifting (on a steep hill, for example), when I didn't have to, I figured I "had them". Just the competitive part of me, I guess. Anyway, when I got the bike home, I took it for a spin (in sneakers, just around the block). I almost FELL twice...and the damn thing is STILL in the same gear that it was when it left the shop!!! So much for "It's just like riding a bicycle!"O
Thank God those down tube shifters went the way of the dinosaurs. Haha
08-14-05, 05:00 AM
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I just recently bought a dawes lightning (silver), and the package was 30 lbs. I just started riding and I think its a great bike. I would like to replace the shifters to STI's, but for 230 to my door, I can't really complain. The bike rides great and looks nice. I'm no expert when it comes to biking, but my friend had a Masi Gran Corsa, which was a very nice bike, and the difference is obvious in the ride, but with lighter components I think this bike would surprise some people. Hope this gives some insight into the mystery eBay bikes.
On a side note: I am a noob, so I didn't adjust the rear der properly, and to make a long story short i destroyed my rear der and had to get my rear rim trued. I changed the der myself and ended up learning alot (including how to adjust properly) and coming across this forum.
On a side note: I am a noob, so I didn't adjust the rear der properly, and to make a long story short i destroyed my rear der and had to get my rear rim trued. I changed the der myself and ended up learning alot (including how to adjust properly) and coming across this forum.
08-14-05, 05:47 AM
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An entertaining post, Smokey.
08-14-05, 10:21 AM
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I like my downtube friction shifters . It takes a few miles to get used to them but after that it is smooth sailing.
What is Sora? I thought most entry level bikes came with 105 components??
. It takes a few miles to get used to them but after that it is smooth sailing. What is Sora? I thought most entry level bikes came with 105 components??
