You mean like, with spoke tension?

And now we laugh!

They are not directional.

Mount the label over the valve hole and enjoy.

[QUOTE=Bob Dopolina;15441962]And now we laugh!

They are not directional.

Mount the label over the valve hole and enjoy.[/QUOTE

Say more. Is it all a sham?

Touche! All I can say to defend myself is I know the Conti recommendation first hand. The spoke tension discussion was all hearsay. Also I know the Conti recommendation does no harm while the low spoke tension has always caused me spoke breakage. Good catch though.

I never thought it was about grip. I thought it was about internal radial construction and easy rolling. Anyone have authoritative information?

It's about marketing. Companies have a hard time selling tires without a tread. When there's a tread, people always ask "which direction?" so they put an arrow on there so they don't have to answer as many phone calls and emails.

Dunno if you think of this as authoritative but here goes...

http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

[h=2]Tread Directionality[/h] Some tires have an asymmetrical tread, for instance "V" shaped tread blocks that could be oriented with the point of the "V" facing forward > or backward <. The question then arises, which way should they face?

[h=3]Road Applications[/h] With tires for road use, it really doesn't matter, since tire tread patterns serve no function on hard surfaces. Tires with "V" patterns are common for motorcycles, and are generally installed so that the point of the "V" hits the road first. This is to help "squirt" the water out ahead of and to the side of the tire contact patch, as a protection against hydroplaning . Since hydroplaning is impossible on a bicycle, there's no need to observe this custom.

Best clincher out there IMO if you can live with the rapid wear and poor durability. They make my 4000s tires feel like turds.

Bob

I picked up a pair at that price, too - look forward to trying them out.

Agreed. And the 4000S is a fine tire. Wear is better than I expected -- I got over 2,000 miles out of the rear tire. The front still looked great, so I moved it to the back and replaced just the one tire.

I was happy to see them pop up on ChainLove because all I was seeing was $65 each around the web. As long as you don't have a lot of debris on the roads, I think you'll love them.

Ah - I picked them up at Ribble. The only downside was that, by the time I got to them, they only had the colored ones available. Evidently, that's a deal-breaker for some, but I just wanted to see what the hype was about.

Thanks for straightening that out. I appreciate it. Makes perfect sense.

If you look up authoritative in the dictionary, they have Sheldon's picture there! I'm sold. This is a successful day. Learned something new (to me).

qft.

Hed c2 belgium test ride
 

ok guys, I just got home from about a 25 mile ride. A fair amount of climbing and hit it hard to really test them out.

I'll review these just like I did the other demo wheels:

HED C2 Rim 23mm wide
CX ray sapim spokes (24/28)
Chris king R45 hubs
Conti 4000s tires 23mm (Set them at 80/85 first and then upped the PSI to 85/90 because the PSI felt to low)
veloplugs


The words I keep coming back to while describing this wheelset are :
Not snappy
squishy or spongy (not to confuse this with not being stiff)
super comfortable

First off, I wrapped the wheel with my preferred specialized turbo tire yesterday. I didn't have time for a long ride because my wife had to work and i had the kids. Though I did do a quick 5 mile ride when she got home. The tires felt super spongy and I didn't like them. After that, I started thinking last night that I should probably put the same tire on these wheels that were used with the rest of my demo wheels so i can get a fair comparison. So I went and got the 4000s tire. I liked the feel of this tire much better now. Hard to admit since I was so against giving them a try since I had so many issues in the past with conti tires. The wheel felt firmer with the conti's on.


Flats:Felt comfortable and smooth. I felt they were a little bit "squishy" and not as snappy when needing a quick burst of speed. But no doubt comfortable.

Hill Climbing: They didn't feel heavy, but they felt spongy while out of the saddle. I stopped to put in more air but it didnt help the spongy feeling. The wheel felt stiff, it just didn't feel snappy. I felt that I had to work harder for each stroke to get to the top of the hill. Even though it is a Given that no matter what wheel you have, hills are hills and you are going to get tired, I just didn't like how it felt climbing. I'm trying to base this judgement with an open mind, but lets be honest, after riding the enve wheels and them being my favorite wheel, its bound to have some sort of weight in my opinions. Even though I felt that I had to work harder with it, I still felt that it was better than the H plus son but not as good as the velocity for some reason (7)

Sprinting: They didn't FEEL fast. They FELT slugish, but I still pulled on my riding friends as normal and ended up about the same distance apart from them I usually have at the end of this flat. So maybe the soft "feeling" is just something that would take some adjusting and getting used to. (6)

Descending: felt great! really felt like I had great control while descending around corners. It was a bit windy today and I didn't feel any of it. When you combine the comfort, great contact with the road and that it wasn't effected by side gusts was a big plus for me. (9)

Braking: Amazing braking on these wheels! I am using the swiss stop green pads and they stopped on a dime. The best braking wheel I have ever ridden hands down. Big plus when if you do a lot of descending and want to feel confident. (10)

Hubs: felt good and could hear them getting louder as the ride went on compared to the first couple minutes I rode on them.

Overall thoughts about this wheel: Good wheel. well built. looked good for shallow aluminum wheel. Butter smooth. But I felt that they lacked snappiness and feeling of speed. I just did not feel quick on them. Maybe that feeling would have faded with more time on them though.



NOW.........



That being said, I didn't feel SUPER stoked about the wheel like I was hoping. I liked it and I think I could have gotten familiar with how it felt, but since jude told me that after 1 or 2 rides I could still bring them back and get the offer with the enve wheels if I was dissatisfied, I took advantage. When i got back from my ride to my LBS, I tlaked with a couple friends I have their which includes the owner and asst mangr. We went over each aspect of the wheel and how I felt about it. I came to the decision that i just had more fun on the enve wheels. They had that snappy feel that I was longing for on this ride and lets face it, I loved that enve wheel from the beginning. I'm glad i was able to test ride the C2 before buying the enve's because I would have always wondered what they felt like and if I would have been satisfied.

I'm stoked about the enve wheel, but part of me wishes I would have never ridden it. If I would have never ridden the enve's, the C2 wheel probably would have provided me with full stoke and 100% satisfaction, BUT thats not the case and my feelings were tainted. Call me a sell out, say I was baited or whatever else, at the end of the day I feel happy and excited.

Jude had told me since day 1 once we started talking about the C2 build that if I didn't like them, I could bring them back and pay the difference for the enve's. I hadn't felt bad about the thought of bringing them back until I did. After my ride I went straight up the road to her shop and brought the wheels in. When she saw me come in with the wheels she was like, "is this a good thing or a bad thing!?" We talked about my experience and asked her if the deal for the enve was still on the table. she said, "OF course!". I told her that Even though I wanted to go ahead and purchase the enve's I was feeling bad because the cost of the parts to build the C2 wheel along with the time she spent to do it. She told me to knock it off and that she wouldn't have offered something she didn't feel she could follow through on. She said she will have no problem selling this wheelset for 10% off. (So in case anyone is interested, you can contact her to go over details). She is going to give the enve wheels a once over and service everything, put on some valve extendeds and I will pick them up tomorrow and bring them to their new home! It was DEFINITELY more than I EVER anticipated spending, but I'm ok with it and have no doubt that I will have years of enjoyment. :thumb:

That also being said:
I bought those Conti 4000s tires for the C2 wheels and my Enve wheels are coming with some already on. I have just this one ride on them and I looked them over and not one scratch on them. I got a good deal on them, but I wont need them. Anyone interested in them for $65 +shipping?

Don't let the fact that you were wrong about the tires impede your sarcasm.

B10 - we knew that you were going to do that. ;)

Have fun with 'em.




...and have you considered some aluminum wheels as back-ups? I hear HED makes some nice stuff...

Lol HED wheels huh?? Hmmm I'll have to look into those :p

Wait, what colour were the hubs on those Enve wheels again?

RED!!!!! :p, which was nearly my last choice color I wanted for my hubs, BUT I can live with them because i think they still look good.

I knew this was going to happen. Looks can go a long ways for what someone feels, not saying you didn't feel the wheel was great but you had enves on your bike and you loved the way it looked and rode. That's an awesome deal to take them back and get the enves, enjoy them and start saving for a alloy set.

Well, we're all happy you're getting what you want, but...Just sayng....

You should have just gone down the generic carbon path, bought the pieces and let someone build them locally. Just saying....90% of the performance at 1/3 of the cost....

Let me say that I got a STEAL for these wheels. She told me that she would NOT go through everything she has with me for everyone and most certainly not offer them the same that she did with me. Since they were a Demo wheel (only ridden a couple times before me though) she was able to go lower than normal and on top of that appreciated the feedback i was giving on here and on the streets. I believe She has had a couple wheel builds due to my recommendations ( I could have misunderstood).

Long story short:

Enve 45 carbon wheels
CX Ray Sapim spokes
Chris king R45 hubs
Valve extenders
The enve brake pads which are in like new condition
Tubes
New continental 4000s tires


$1600!!! I Couldn't pass with how I felt about the C2. I didn't want to say anything really because I didn't want people to think that she would offer that to just anyone.

I feel very blessed to have gone through this experience, her generosity and time and the deal she gave me. Sugar wheel works in Portland, OR had DEFINITELY earned my business!

I hope you read my reply after your post and see the price I got them for.

That's a great price. Those things are a grand more online. Curious what makes ENVE better (if it is) than say a Boyd. I've been thinking about the Boyd 44s. They look pretty sick but I don't think the hubs are as nice as CK. Kind of hate paying that much for "average" hubs. Any insight?