The New boyds are great from what i hear. New rim shape which if I'm not mistaken are shaped more like the zipp firecrest which gives it a more aerodynamic ride no not only forward movement but better in side wind. I'm not too familiar with the new boyds though as some folks. The hubs are new and supposed to be better as well.

If I understand it correctly, Enve shines when it comes to their R&D in the braking surface which helps stop overheating. They are also really light for their depth. I believe they come stock (When prebuilt i think they come with DT swiss 240's) at 1450g?

I read it, and you're right...it might be 40% of the price you paid, 20% of new ones. But you got a good deal, I'd be glad to have it.

The spongy feeling is a lack of stiffness. Just saying.

Confused about the tires. You can't have a back-up set? Or you'll want to go another direction when the current ones wear out? How about you give them to Jude - she's earned a 'tip'.

I have a similar wheelset and spongy isn't a word I would use. Of course, I've never ridden ENVEs or similar so what do I know. Mine used lazer and race spokes. Do spokes (assuming quality ones) make THAT much of a difference?

EDIT: and yes I read most of this thread but most of the spoke discussion was over my head.

WHAT is your problem? I made an honest post as far as I knew regarding mounting the Conti tires. Trying to help Nick according to what I thought was true. Several others seemed to think similarly so I wasn't alone making the mistake. I was wrong and freely admitted it. Not only that but I was glad to learn the truth and said so. How is all this offensive to you? Not anything in the past; I'm talking about the Conti tires right now.

So, B10...tape choice is now red?

I dont know if I would have thought they felt that way either if I hadn't ever ridden the enve's. The enve's set a standard in my head with how snappy a wheel can feel. Fortunately/unfortunately it raised the bar so high from where it was that it was difficult to feel satisfaction with anything else.

Absolutely. I'm assuming you're using Races drive side and Lasers non drive side? He's essentially just using lasers. Lasers are really flexible spokes. He's a big guy. I would have laced his wheels with CXs drive side, and CX rays non drive side, or essentially your lacing but with their bladed counter parts.

Basically, the lighter your spokes are, the more you're sacrificing stiffness. Stiffness is nearly a direct proportion to weight. So when his cx supers are advertised as "17% lighter than cx rays" I read that as 17% less stiff. This is all considering the same lacing pattern, rim and hub. More crossings is generally stiffer, wider and higher hub flanges are generally stiffer.

So, even though his C2s have ~15% more spokes than his boyds, his supers would be 17% less stiff, meaning he would have a less stiff spoke set up, even though he was using more of them.

Spokes, in my opinion, are the most important part of a wheel build, followed by rim choice . If you're using a particularly stiff hoop you can let up on the spokes.

Nah probably not. I might spring for a Red SL Hollogram crank arm bolt though. And a red chain of course lol

I'm not sure why because I know you have said it several times, but reading that finally made sense to me what you were saying all this time. It just clicked. Thank you for the info, sorry I didn't understand what you were saying before. Luckily, now I dont have to worry about it.

No problem, I'm really glad it clicked, and I'm really glad you're ending up with the enves. They're awesome wheels.

My rear is 32 hole / 3X using Sapim-Race DS and 3X Sapim-Laser NDS. Front is 24 hole / 2X and all race.

More cross, more spokes. I'm even bigger (200lbs).

Thanks for the info.

So OP, rank the 5 wheelsets from top to bottom? Boyds, Enves, Archetypes, A23s, and C2s, that's all of them, right?

Correct...

1-Enve
2-C2
(3-5 is tough. They all have their pro's and cons and which are all different.)

3-The boyds were great. If I didn't need the money from them to afford the enve's, I would have loved to have kept them. Now after riding these other sets, I think the only downfall they had were they were flexy. BUT that may have been a non issue if I they were a 24/28.

4-Toss up between the H plus son and the A23. I felt the A23 was a better wheel to ride with the exception of descending. I liked how they felt while climbing and on flat ground. Both comfortable wheels. I give the 4th spot to the Velocity A23's
5-H plus son. I really dont feel that they deserve to fit in last place, but when I think back to my reviews on them, they felt heavy and I didn't like how they felt while climbing much. I feel this is contradicting though, because I feel they were similar to the C2 which I placed as #2 out of the 5. The C2 felt better than the A23 while climbing which is the main advantage/reason I put it higher on the list.

My next wheel build may well be to put one of my powertaps in a 28 hole Enve rim and then get a 20 hole front with R45 hub. Make sure you keep updating us on how you go with them, particularly braking and heat on long descents.

Thanks for the thread and thanks for your questions to your builder regarding spoke tension, I'm about to tension up my front as a result of this thread making me think about things further than I previously had.:thumb:

I can't believe we are on page 40. Well done bianchi10!

lol. I can't believe it took 40 pages to arrive at the foregone conclusion.

"I really want "A" but everybody is telling me I'll be better off with "B". What do you think?"

and 40 pages later...

"Hey, cool, thanks everybody for your input, it's been fascinating, I bought "A". I know, amazing right? That never happens on the internet."

I'm surprised he didn't go with the Enve's in the first place...being so OCD about looks and all...

[QUOTE=numberSix;15444002]lol. I can't believe it took 40 pages to arrive at the foregone conclusion.
QUOTE]
Ha ha yeah, its interesting though that the bling carbon was actually perceived to be "best" as well as bling. So far I haven't been able to justify poor braking and tire blowing heat risk for the minimal extra performance, but it does seem that these issues may be a little more under control these days......maybe

No problem. You asked for support for the idea that directionality didn't matter for road tires, I gave an example. I was just trying to help you see it from another pov and even suggested that you might not take my link as authoritative. You responded with sarcasm. I pointed that out. Why is that exchange offensive to you?

Because not all 40 pages was a matter of making a decision. This started out as testing for information and person experience. It didn't become a matter shopping till we were deep into it already.


I'm glad I didn't. It gave me an opportunity to at least test the C2. If i would have just bought the enve I would have wondered in my mind if I would have loved the C2 and saved some money. It all worked out.


The braking on the enve's are better than my boyds were and definitely better than the H+S wheels. Might take a loss in wet weather, but since I rarely ride in the rain anyway it isn't a concern.

I didn't read his response (regarding the dictionary, Sheldon, and authoritative) as sarcastic at all -- to me it looked like an expression of sincere respect. Perhaps that's the miscommunication?

No, no, it wasn't sarcasm. Sheldon Brown is certainly authoritative. I sincerely value Sheldon Brown as THE #1 authority on bicycle mechanical topics. When someone says a person's picture is next to a word in the dictionary, it means that person is the epitome of that word, that the two are synonymous. That is how I feel about SB and "authoritative", and that is what I said. I was just trying to use a little humor to emphasize the point. I was surprised to be misunderstood, that's all.

Good to hear, its more the heat problem that I worry about - stopping distance can be adjusted for mostly. I live near and regularly ride some pretty big hills, I'm on the brakes sometimes quite hard for quite a while. I'd love to hear your experience of a long decent hard on the brakes. I followed a friend down a local decent recently who was riding zipps, I actually dropped back because the burning smell coming off his brakes made me wonder if he would make the bottom.

Your Enve's are newer and maybe a different resin or brake compound, I'd like to hear how they hold up to some real braking abuse.

Gotta say they look great by the way