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A different take on bikes v. dogs....

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A different take on bikes v. dogs....

Old 06-09-13, 05:14 AM
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knoxtnhorn
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A different take on bikes v. dogs....

This bike v. dog argument gets hashed out on here about once a week. There are lots of ways to defend oneself from a dog or dogs. My issue is with the owners. I know I probably live in an area that probably has a higher percentage of "crazies" when it comes to owners and their dogs but does anyone else here concern themselves with what the owners might do if you hurt their dog?

I ride a lot in rural East TN and I can handle the dogs. What concerns me, more than the dogs, are the owners. I would never, ever hurt a dog unless it was a last resort. I'm far more concerned with said owner of dog jumping in his circa 1970 truck and running me down. Hell, this type of stuff happens at times absent an run-in with a family pet.

I had an incident last year in which I was riding on a rural road and a pretty large dog came charging at me from the left. Ironically, just at that time a cop decided to pass me (on the left). Cop car nailed the dog. It limped back to the house. I stopped and told the owner and he was pretty pissed. I could tell that he would have been the type I'm speaking of in my previous statements.

I guess I don't really have a question other than to wonder if anyone else on here has the same considerations and/or their own stories.
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Old 06-09-13, 05:29 AM
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A guy at work who is also a farmer thought it was funny to let his large dog run free on the farm.Well a new pickup hit the dog and the pickup owners insurance gave the dog owner a bill for $ 1600.00. that got his attention.
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Old 06-09-13, 05:30 AM
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I find pepper spray works on both dogs and their owners.

Oh, and the only person at fault for an unleashed dog is the owner.
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Old 06-09-13, 08:37 AM
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Some "dog people" irritate me. By the way, I own a dog; he's a good boy.

But he's also an ANIMAL. It is my responsibility to control/contain him, and to be aware of the fact that he is not a person/citizen/what-have-you. I am always aware of the fact that the line between him being a good and placid dog and hurting a person (even a child!) can be remarkably thin.

He's just a dog. A responsible and even caring dog owner should always be aware of that very real limitation.
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Old 06-09-13, 09:37 AM
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OP...you wrote "a different take". You lied!
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Old 06-09-13, 09:51 AM
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If you're a dog owner/lover, then you should be very concerned about your dog's well-being, by keeping him fenced in or on a leash so he doesn't get run over by a car or sprayed with pepper spray by a cyclist, both of whom have a legal right to be on the road.
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Old 06-09-13, 10:46 AM
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There's a thread somewhere on this forum about how merely talking to a charging dog will stop it and prevent it from biting. I've been using that technique since reading of it. It WORKS 100%!

I no longer fear dogs when riding.

I've always loved dogs, and would never want to hurt one; and while I keep my own dogs safe and out of the road at all times, other dog owners don't seem to be so caring about their dogs.

Wish I could find the thread I'm talking about, to link to it. This talking to the dogs idea is revolutionary! (And like the author says, you don't even have to yell; just talk to the poor creatures!)

I agree with the author of that thread now: There's no need for there to be animosity; fear; or violence between dogs and cyclists. Use this simple ingenious technique of simply talking to dogs (and in extreme cases, also coming to a stop) and cyclists and dogs (and irresponsible dog owners) can co-exist in peace.
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Old 06-09-13, 11:05 AM
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Talking to the dog doesn't always work. The dogs that are not well trained and left to do their own thing without any humans disciplining them will not listen and are running totally on instinct by protecting their territory. These dogs are usually, but not always, out in the rural areas. Their owners do not care what happens to them, and the unfortunate cyclist or runner is the unknowing victim. Sometimes it takes more than a friendly "NO" to stop a charging undisciplined dog.
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Old 06-09-13, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by kenji666 View Post
Talking to the dog doesn't always work. The dogs that are not well trained and left to do their own thing without any humans disciplining them will not listen and are running totally on instinct by protecting their territory. These dogs are usually, but not always, out in the rural areas. Their owners do not care what happens to them, and the unfortunate cyclist or runner is the unknowing victim. Sometimes it takes more than a friendly "NO" to stop a charging undisciplined dog.
I ride in a rural area myself, with those kinds of dogs. Works for me. Maybe "No" is too minimalist. I talk to the dogs- saying things (as the author recommended) like "Hiya, boy!" I think just hearing the human voice, and realizing that you are not an inanimate object like a car; and that you are in control of the situation, is what does it. Doing this has worked for me even on the nastiest dogs, including one that had bitten me in the past.
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Old 06-09-13, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SolitaryRider View Post
There's a thread somewhere on this forum about how merely talking to a charging dog will stop it and prevent it from biting. I've been using that technique since reading of it. It WORKS 100%!

I no longer fear dogs when riding.

I've always loved dogs, and would never want to hurt one; and while I keep my own dogs safe and out of the road at all times, other dog owners don't seem to be so caring about their dogs.

Wish I could find the thread I'm talking about, to link to it. This talking to the dogs idea is revolutionary! (And like the author says, you don't even have to yell; just talk to the poor creatures!)

I agree with the author of that thread now: There's no need for there to be animosity; fear; or violence between dogs and cyclists. Use this simple ingenious technique of simply talking to dogs (and in extreme cases, also coming to a stop) and cyclists and dogs (and irresponsible dog owners) can co-exist in peace.
Not in my experience. Maybe 25% of dogs are slowed by talking to them.
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Old 06-09-13, 12:10 PM
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I've tried it and it doesn't work for me. Maybe my voice isn't "nice" enough. Babies cry when I talk to them, so maybe it's just me.
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Old 06-09-13, 12:23 PM
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Usually if a dog is intolerable, the owner is as well.

And since I just posted this in the other dog thread that popped up yesterday, I might as well post it here as well...

Dog's make great training partners:
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Old 06-09-13, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by knoxtnhorn View Post
What concerns me, more than the dogs, are the owners.
Shoot the dogs first ... then the owners.
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Old 06-09-13, 03:05 PM
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A friend of mine was riding his motorcyle and wrecked after hitting and killing a dog. The owners came out and beat him as he lay injured on the ground.
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Old 06-09-13, 05:51 PM
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When I was a kid, a neighborhood kid threw a ball at me while I was riding my bike. His dog, a German Shepherd chased after it and flipped me and my bike over. I was lucky to only have needed seven stitches. I didn't blame the dog, then or now. There are leash laws in most places, even in rural areas (there is one where I live) and if a dog causes you to have an accident, you can sue the owner for damages. I don't know how anyone can blame or want to hurt the dog. It's not the dog's fault. He doesn't know he's not supposed to chase you.
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Old 06-09-13, 07:56 PM
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I live in Southern IN, where crazy owners and vicious dogs absolutely abound. Pit bulls, rots, whatever sort of stereotypical rural mean dogs. A lot of them aren't going to leave their yard, some of them are even on an invisible fence, however it's almost impossible to know that when they are charging you. Yelling at them, (Bad Dog! Stay in the yard!) is pretty effective, talking to them (Good dog, who's a good boy, stay in the yard) also works to an extent, while I have almost always carried pepper spray, just in case, I've never used it, I also have a truly vintage non-functional Zefal frame pump, the big ones one that clip on to the seat tube, it's steel and extends to twice that length, I've waved it at a number of dogs, and once bonked a particularly mean repeat offender on the nose with it, which cured of him the actually trying to catch me, although he still ran alongside me.

I think a lot of these owners think "My dog won't really bite anyone, so it's not hurting anything if he chases cars, and or cyclists, runners, horses etc." but the really scary thing is when these dogs cross the road into the path of oncoming traffic, causing the driver to have to react. Surely we all know that drivers are perilously close to being brain dead to begin with, now they have to think, and possibly maneuver, or even slow down. No car or god forbid pickup truck can be bothered to slow down, even to prevent killing a dog or mere cyclist. (Minivan drivers would never notice a dog, or a cyclist, so they are exempt from this criticism)
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Old 06-09-13, 08:40 PM
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I'm lucky to have not come across many nasty dogs, but my certainly has through work. Its very important to have some kind of defensive weapon that you can access and use with a single hand. That way in the worst case scenario you can give the dog one arm to keep it off your throat while going to work on it with the other.

Do a quick youtube search on pitbull attacks and you'll see that you have to totally incapacitate it before it will let go. Pitbull owners are required in some states to carry a break stick, which is a strong lever used to pry open its jaws.

Its also important to learn about dogs. If you've never owned a dog, then it can be very difficult to tell if a dog is aggressive or playful. Our 80lb retriever growing up had a ferocious sounding growl that she'd use when playing, and it would scare the crap out of my friends. Her aggressive bark and grown was on a whole other level. Whenever she saw a black bear she turned into a hell hound (and scared the crap out of the bear!)

I worked at a bike shop in NYC where the owner had a 50lb female pitbull, Scout. Her temperament was amazing. She was off leash on the sidewalk day after day and never bothered anyone, just greeted everyone, including small children. Customers loved her. She never once even snapped at another dog. Our retriever was not nearly that well behaved.

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Old 06-09-13, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by shyonelung View Post
When I was a kid, a neighborhood kid threw a ball at me while I was riding my bike. His dog, a German Shepherd chased after it and flipped me and my bike over. I was lucky to only have needed seven stitches. I didn't blame the dog, then or now. There are leash laws in most places, even in rural areas (there is one where I live) and if a dog causes you to have an accident, you can sue the owner for damages. I don't know how anyone can blame or want to hurt the dog. It's not the dog's fault. He doesn't know he's not supposed to chase you.
Right on! The doggie is just doing what dogs are supposed to do. The owners are ******* for letting their dogs be in a position where they can be harmed as well as causing harm to others.

Originally Posted by DoninIN View Post
I live in Southern IN, where crazy owners and vicious dogs absolutely abound. Pit bulls, rots, whatever sort of stereotypical rural mean dogs. A lot of them aren't going to leave their yard, some of them are even on an invisible fence, however it's almost impossible to know that when they are charging you. Yelling at them, (Bad Dog! Stay in the yard!) is pretty effective, talking to them (Good dog, who's a good boy, stay in the yard) also works to an extent, while I have almost always carried pepper spray, just in case, I've never used it, I also have a truly vintage non-functional Zefal frame pump, the big ones one that clip on to the seat tube, it's steel and extends to twice that length, I've waved it at a number of dogs, and once bonked a particularly mean repeat offender on the nose with it, which cured of him the actually trying to catch me, although he still ran alongside me.
In my case, I also SLOW DOWN when I encounter a charging dog, as I talk to it. I even sometimes act as though I am going to stop, or as if I'm going to chase him. I think those actions, in conjunction with talking to them, is the key. It's worked every time for me. I believe our actions; body language; and attitude is half of it. Showing the dog that we aren't scared and that we are in control of the situation. I no longer even carry any physical deterents. (But I do carry dog treats. Make friends with the dogs...most won't chase you anymore; they may come out to greet you though.
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Old 06-10-13, 09:48 PM
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Although only chased a few times there was one dog who came out from his yard as myself and some friends were climbing a hill. We could not out run him so as he approached I just stopped and let him come up to me and bark. The owner came out and got the dog. WE suggested they should secure there pet to keep it safe. The next time by that house we were going downhill, the dog came out at us again. This time we let him follow us for quite some distance. He was pretty far from home and I'm sure the owner had some fun finding him. Pet owners should just keep their dogs secured. Pretty simple.
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Old 06-10-13, 11:44 PM
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One of my neighbours lets his dog roam loose around here.
Since then I carry one of these while riding:

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Old 06-11-13, 07:23 AM
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I never understood the "stereotypical" mean rural pitbull/rot type anyway. I was raised in rural AL, many of the "farm dogs" were terriers, labs/golden retrievers etc. a few i knew kept hunting dogs. most of those breeds had a purpose, the terriers (jack russels and mt feist's in particular) were great at helping keep mice/rats off the property and would chase off coyotes and stuff, but what purpose does a Rot or Pitbull or Shepard serve in those rural areas?? because of the large parcel of land they were on the 'farm dogs' are rarely fenced/leashed, and having lived in those areas I understand why they do that, who can afford to fence in 100+ acres and I think its a fairly ridiculous notion to expect someone to.

I get why cyclist complain about it, I get why the owners leave their dogs unrestrained, there simply is not a real great middle ground for both parties here and its just something you have to deal with as a cyclist and you have to expect as a dog owner.
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Old 06-11-13, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SolitaryRider View Post
In my case, I also SLOW DOWN when I encounter a charging dog, as I talk to it. I even sometimes act as though I am going to stop, or as if I'm going to chase him. I think those actions, in conjunction with talking to them, is the key. . . . .
Did you major in doggie psychology?
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Old 06-11-13, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
I find pepper spray works on both dogs and their owners.

Oh, and the only person at fault for an unleashed dog is the owner.
This is the crux of the matter. I don't blame dogs for their behavior entirely, but whether it is a man-eating mutt in a rural area or some clown on a MUP talking on the phone while his/her dog roams free, the more sentient species is responsible.

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Old 06-11-13, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bonz50 View Post
I never understood the "stereotypical" mean rural pitbull/rot type anyway. I was raised in rural AL, many of the "farm dogs" were terriers, labs/golden retrievers etc. a few i knew kept hunting dogs. most of those breeds had a purpose, the terriers (jack russels and mt feist's in particular) were great at helping keep mice/rats off the property and would chase off coyotes and stuff, but what purpose does a Rot or Pitbull or Shepard serve in those rural areas?? because of the large parcel of land they were on the 'farm dogs' are rarely fenced/leashed, and having lived in those areas I understand why they do that, who can afford to fence in 100+ acres and I think its a fairly ridiculous notion to expect someone to.

I get why cyclist complain about it, I get why the owners leave their dogs unrestrained, there simply is not a real great middle ground for both parties here and its just something you have to deal with as a cyclist and you have to expect as a dog owner.
Seems to be the people who live in houses/trailers on small parcels who tend to have the Rotties and pits, et al, [I mean it- A pit et my friend Al ] as opposed to the farmers. Where I ride, there's this one house, in a little group of three houses, on small parcels near the road. The place is a sty. Garbage strewn all over the front "lawn"; children's toys left outside all of the time; the house looks almost abandoned. Of course they have the requisite pit (Who came out after me once. Luckily, it was AFTER having learned the talk-to-them technique. And since they live not far from a main highweay, I circled around and led the dog back home.)

Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
Did you major in doggie psychology?
Nope! I just like to think that as a human being, I have enough intelligence to be able to deal civilly with a creature of lesser intelligence. A creature with whom most are quite familiar; and which are very predictable and who are driven by simple instincts; And which usually mean no harm. We're not exactly dealing with sociopathic geniuses, here.

It's a dog- not Wile E. Coyote.
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Old 06-11-13, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bonz50 View Post
I never understood the "stereotypical" mean rural pitbull/rot type anyway. I was raised in rural AL, many of the "farm dogs" were terriers, labs/golden retrievers etc. a few i knew kept hunting dogs. most of those breeds had a purpose, the terriers (jack russels and mt feist's in particular) were great at helping keep mice/rats off the property and would chase off coyotes and stuff, but what purpose does a Rot or Pitbull or Shepard serve in those rural areas??
Guarding meth labs.

because of the large parcel of land they were on the 'farm dogs' are rarely fenced/leashed, and having lived in those areas I understand why they do that, who can afford to fence in 100+ acres and I think its a fairly ridiculous notion to expect someone to.
You don't have to fence 100+ acres to keep a dog.

I get why cyclist complain about it, I get why the owners leave their dogs unrestrained, there simply is not a real great middle ground for both parties here and its just something you have to deal with as a cyclist and you have to expect as a dog owner.
Fortunately, there doesn't have to be a "middle ground". Humans have superior rights and owners of dogs that are a public nuisance have to deal with the consequences.
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