Why are you here? Go drink a Pabst why doncha?

You're going to tell me it's fun?
And I'm drinking "Kirkland Signature" CostCo German Lager. It's quite decent.
Handcrafted in San Jose!
Pabst? Ohhh, ha ha, Hipster. Ouch.
Anyway, Han Solo pulls the fastest.

Yes it's a ton o' fun.

Beer good.

You mean I got the Hipster slam right? Jeebus I'm so out of the loop on this stuff I must have got lucky. I'm off to by a lotto ticket!

Never got into the freight train style. Too much traffic slasher in me. And anyway, I'm terrible at pulling. Terrible. I just peeked in here and was turned off by the power wattage inchy footy rotating wheelsucking comet of speed talk.
Imma goan try the Pale Ale now, get my hipster cred and listen to Von Haze. Happy Father's day, y'all.

And I can imagine what the Nascar fans say about bike races... grass growing... paint drying... stick insects on wheels...

Although I think the drivers would get it.

Hi Brian,
No offense taken and thanks for your comments. Makes sense that racers are more precise as you correctly write. Part of gapping as you know of recreational riders like me and similar riders is..due to lack of consistent effort as you say. If we all rode together a lot, there would be much better synergy and similar expectations. Inconsistent effort partly born from lack of experience creates too high a risk to ride wheel to wheel as no rider can really trust the surge of the line. Racers of course are generally better riders, and the whole paceline will be more precise and riders can ride closer together with less risk.

Well then you don't have a vote..lol. Riding pacelines is one of cycling's joys. Riding long distances in organized rides is a common activity, not only because it is fun to work with others by 'cooperation' but derive the efficiency of drafting and thrill of riding at a much higher speed than you could sustain by yourself.
Be sure to stick to the sidewalk pokey.

Here you go: http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdispl...nal-amp-Family

I have absolutely no problems with someone joining our/my paceline given 2 things:

1. You can ride safely in the paceline and know to signal, not overlap, etc. etc. etc.
2. If you take a turn at the front you maintain the same effort.

Given those 2 rules, if you are getting to the front and slowing the group down because you feel that is how you can contribute you are actually breaking both. IMO you are far better off taking a short pull at the appropriate effort level OR staying at the very back. A trick I've used in the past on days where I don't have the legs is to swap onto the wheel of the person falling back (from the back of the paceline) so when they check to see where the back of the line is to fall back in, they don't see me in line and naturally fall in line ahead of me. I just move back with them and repeat with the next guy.

Here is something else to consider, and something that is actually quite valuable: Even if you just rotate to the front, spend 3 seconds there, then pull off, you are still helping the pace line.

Each rider is providing a draft, and the more riders you have, the better the draft for those in the back. If you can't pull, you are still at intermediate points of the pace line, providing a draft to those behind you.

I would rather have five other guys in the pace line, with one taking a 2-3 second pull, than have just four other guys.

Then ride with people you know and who know how you ride.

Sort of like every bike racer who is good at sprinting.

Try doing that for four hours. Pulling, oh, three times your body weight. And not killing yourself.

I know a few guys that race cars for a living. Trust me. They are in better shape than you. I know a couple that, on off weekends will race a bike or do a triathlon. When not racing a car, they go out and kick the butts of the weekend warriors engaging in multiple pages of paceline discussion.

Michael Waltrip, NASCAr driver (who is 6'5") runs marathons in under four hours. He's doing triathlons to get ready for the 24 Hours of LeMans.

This reminds me of a guy I knew who said drag racing was easy. All you have to do is drive in a straight line. I am still laughing.

Well said.

Go and look at the length of time anyone pulls in a team time trial in, say, the Tour or Giro. It's not much more than that.

Completely agree. The ignorant 'purists' who snub NASCAR. They don't have a clue. All the idiots who pan NASCAR would crash and burn in the first turn in traffic and couldn't do a single lap in qualifying at even 70% of qualifying speed. Even 'semi-pro' open wheel guys couldn't do it. People have no idea of the talent of those that are the best at what they do. A side note. There is an analogy between NASCAR and bike racing. Hard to win without some help aka a team or other drivers that will push you. This is why you will never see Danica win. She has talent. But male drivers won't push her to the front at the end of the race. You didn't see her race Indy this year either. I have seen her race open wheel and she had talent at that as well. I believe she quit because of the danger after watching the incredible Wellman die.

Which reminds me RW of the comparison to WWE. Remember Andy Koffman who used to wrestle women as a spectacle? Then he made the mistake of taunting a heavy weight in the WWE. That basically killed Koffman...broke his neck. The pro wrestler picked up Koffman like he was a twig and pile drove his head into the canvas. Broke his neck. For all that think the WWE is fake, you would be an absolute fool to get in the ring with any of those guys. The standard joke in the WWE is dumb guys...from the 41?....wait for the pro wrestlers when the leave the stadium and try and pick a fight because they think its staged and the pros really can't fight. Its staged without question, but the guys that rise in the WWE can fight as all the wannabees find out...lol.

This

WWE IS FAKE. Don't tell me you believe this *****.

The real things about these guys, is that they train really hard, and know their stuff really well. Know how to not get hurt, and how to not hurt the others. These guys are warriors, tons of muscles (and these ARE REAL). But the fight, in the ring, is a show. There's is nothing real to it, it's just an extreme choregraphy (with some free moves).

I think it's possible to think something is stupid while appreciating that it's difficult. I mean it's hard to be a pro baseball player too, but fercrissakes, try and watch a game sometimes. Those skinny guys who can eat like 500 hot dogs are professional 'eating champions' or whatever and I sure as heck can't do that, but the whole concept is still dumber than a box of hammers.

Fixed it...Patrick left IndyCar for the cash. Pure and simple. Not every track requires "help" like a restrictor plate track like Daytona or Talladega. Some, like Michigan this past weekend, for example.

What makes me chuckle are the comments that have little to no basis in fact. But what else is new?

Tony Kanaan, who won Indy this year...benches 310 and as of two years ago,(lost contact) he'd done a half Ironman and six sprint tris. He rides about 60 miles every day, including during racing season. I know the guy that trains him. In the car, for three hours his HR is over 200. He's 5'5" and weighs 147. So when he smacks the wall at 230mph and is out riding his bike the next day when most would be in the hospital for a week, high level conditioning and safety equipment is how it's done.

People may not enjoy auto racing. It is about the same as bike racing. It's only interesting to people that care to watch. Except for July when everyone's an expert.

Don't think that weekend roundy rounds for an hour require a lot of great skill.

The one thing I've learned about group riding is that there are few rules of group riding. Every group seems to have their own way of doing things. I've been in groups that push hard and take short 10-30sec pull, groups where a few strong guys tend to get on the front and stay, groups where the paceline breaks up and reforms multiple time throughout the ride and everything in between. If I'm with a group I'm unfamiliar with, I just hang back and see if I can figure out what this group is doing - short pulls, long pulls, going harder on hills or keeping a constant effort, riding close or more disorganized.

While waiting for NBC Sports to spool up the Dauphine I started watching the Isle of Mann TT Superbike runs. Holly Mother! Talk about an incredible contrast of two wheel machines. To each his own.

KInd of like watching a bunch of guys riding bikes way better than their skills, go in cricles for an hour, half of which cannnot finish, and calling that a bike race.

Why bother? If you crash it's your doctor/hospital bill and the repair on the bike is yours, too. To me that's really really dumb. Even the Saturday night guys I know that do modifieds, they have sponsors to help with the costs. Racing a bike out of your own pocket?

Any sport is stupid if looked at a certain way.

Try MotoGP too.

But that's also dumb...;)

All I can say about NASCAR is that I got a chance to go on one of those events where they let you drive the cars on the track with an instructor and had a blast. The power in those cars is amazing - it just keeps coming in a linear curve the further down you push the accelerator. I had to have been going over 100 and the instructor told me to go faster, I then realized that accelerator wasn't even halfway down. I went to about 3/4 and it threw me back in the seat. The other amazing thing was the grip on the tires. I would take the corners at speeds that would send the sportiest street cars spinning and those tires stuck like glue. I'm sure I was nowhere close to hitting the limit like a pro would, but it was crazy intense. I still cant watch it on TV though.

FTFY.

Race slicks are obviously a lot more sticky than even high performance street tires. But the big thing that makes a race car able to pull several times the g's in a corner that a sports car can, is the downforce being applied.