atallen223

Can't I just assume I have the perfect body I imagine myself having??

What does that mean how far the track from the top tube? Is that how far they are from the top tube during my pedal stroke?

atallen223

Yeah I agree. What works for one person's problem might not necessarily work for everybody, but I do appreciate the input. I mean I might just chop the whole thing off... So I can Stop worrying about it. I wish it was as easy as just new pedals, but I'm guessing it'll be more complicated than that.

gailw

My 12 year old son does speed cycling at the veledome in Trexlertown Pa. He had a bad accident another rider clipped his front wheel three weeks ago. no broken bones did an x ray but the right knee is still swollen and hurts when he gets on the bike. He raced last night and after the 5 laps scatch race he was limping again. Please any cyclist out there give me some advice. Brought him too the doc today and she wants him too see and Orthopedic Surgeon. Thinks he needs an MRI. I got one that specilizes in sports meds who is also a cyclist. Any advice would be helpful cause he wants too go to practice tonight and if anything is torn I know it will make it worse. I told him he needs too rest and not get back on the bike til he has an MRI. Thanks for any advice

achoo

Still swollen and limping after three weeks? At 12 years old? I'd say there's something wrong because I think a simple soft-tissue injury should be pretty much healed by now for a 12-year-old.

He definitely shouldn't be riding until he sees that orthopedic surgeon. Then do what the surgeon says. Let him complain. At that age, he probably does that anyway and this would just be a change of subject and not tone....

gailw

thanks for your advice I was thinking that too but the more people that tell him the better. He still thinks he will be able too rest this week and go back next week and I do no think that will happen

RunninAD

Based solely off of this it reminds me of the time I had a bone bruise on my knee. That tug that runs from the medial side to just above your knee, I'm assuming you've had a doctor look at it, but I didn't catch it until I had an MRI. Even thought your timeline is a long one for a bone bruise

atallen223

Would that be tender to the touch?

darb85

SPD mountain or SPD-SL road Pedals? if using with elite road shoes and just the SPD MTN cleat, it will cause the foot to rock leading to something similar.

atallen223

They are the SPD-SL pedals.

atallen223

For anybody keeping track, I have purchased speedplay pedals and new Shimano shoes.Went for a quick (just around the block) ride and they felt pretty good. I am going to wait for a new fitting to try and push it any harder.

RunninAD

Not really, unless you're pushing down on it, so kind of. If you apply force to it and it hurts it could be a bone bruise. There should also be swelling in the area, just a little puffiness, sorry I took so long to respond, hope it's cleared up by now.

acastell

Atallen....did the speed plays solve the problem? Could be helpful to know as others may benefit from your experience...hope you found an answer!

atallen223

Sadly they did not solve my knee problem, but now it is on the other knee.... which is strange. I havent gotten back on the bike in a long time, because Im starting to think it is something actually wrong and I don't want to screw up my knees for good. So still no solution...

youngbeginner

You could have a wear away of cartilage in your knee causing friction between bone on bone of over time work in the knee joint. When you say it doesn't hurt off the bike, do you run or walk alot off the bike? If not, that isn't a fair assessment because you aren't putting in the same level of intensity off the bike as on it. Currently I have osteochondritis dissecans in both knees, which is the wearing away of cartilage, and have a similar problem, but only after mile 25.

Cyclelogikal

You need to see a sports medicine doctor or ortho that may have experience or expertise in working with athletes in this sport. My personal physician is a hardcore rider as well but not trained in this area. They exist and can be found to assist if you are very passionate about riding.

ericcc65

I'd say see an orthopedic doctor and get an MRI. I'm not a doctor but it seems like inner knee pain is often caused by a meniscus tear. But I might be wrong.

atallen223

I do run a little bit (about 30-40 miles a month), and I do feel a small tinge of pain in my knee when I start a run. So it hurts the same spot of your knees?

atallen223

What's weird is the knee pain switched (from right to left), and I have no pain while running around.

atallen223

I went to an ortho/sports medicine doctor and he said since I feel little to no pain while running he thought it wasnt serious so I dont know!

ericcc65

Yes, that is odd. Hopefully it's not a tear. I've had all kinds of knee problems but mostly on the outside of the knee, and not your typical tears, mostly clean MRIs. I've had chrnoic repetitive stress type issues like iliotibial band syndrome and fabella syndrome. But never on the inside of the knee.

youngbeginner

I feel the pain under my knee cap most of the time and the pain sharpens from a lot of factors but I'm not allowed to run and I have (against doctor's orders) and it hurt like hell so I stopped. It switches in place, but that's because the lesions in my knee were the sizes of half-dollar coins so there is a lot of bone on bone going on. However, I'm halfway through treatment and they are beginning to feel better. It depends on your age, but since the pain switched knees it's probably a mechanical issue. Unless you had the knee pain in one knee and then shifted most of your weight to the other leg to avoid feeling pain and then that knee started hurting... That's what happened to me and is how I first realized I should go to the doctor. If you are under 25, the odds of you having osteochondritis dissecans are much less, but still possible. Now, my guess may be just mechanical, but the switching legs overuse theory may be the cause also.

lazerzxr

If those are the shoes with built in Varus wedge then they would casue that problem for me too. Those shoes are supposed to be good for 80% of people, I am most certainly one of the other 20%. The damage they did to me took a season to get going and was evident for a number of weeks after i stopped using them. No amount of bike fitting could solve my issues until I changed those shoes. Unfortunately in my case I changed them for SIDI wich casued a raft of other issues but I have now settled on Shimano which are perfect for me with a few tweaks. Shoes are extremely important and they are all different, you cant assume they will all work for you even with adjustments and insoles.

atallen223

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking! I had no problems before I got those shoes, and that weird arch thing always felt weird. I don't have any reason or scientific reasoning to back up why I think it was the shoes, but I think is was.

So you said even after you switched it took you a while for the pain to stop? I had shimano shoes before and I had no problems and I Shimano shoes now but I still got the knee pain so do you think it just takes time to heal?

lazerzxr

For me it took time and it will for you too - you kave an injury, the off camber platform of the shoe felt good to start with but over time i just started to feel strange until all I could think about was how nice it would be to pedal on a flat shoe. I installed oposing wedges to flatten the shoe which felt better but it is not possible to get them to exactly match a normal shoe. Also the spech arches felt too far forward for me and almost felt like they were lifting the ball of my foot slightly, effectively adding to the wedge effect. In the end I could stand it no more even though at the time I thought the wedge was helping my knee tracking it just didnt feel right and my knees hurt.

If you read Steve Hogg, he disagrees about wedges being needed for all but a very small percentage of people. I agree. What is really needed is arch support. Using wedges affects every joint in the pedal system, some people will benefit but for most I believe tweaking arch support is the best way to go. I have some Esoles in shimano shoes now which I have adjusted with some stick on rubber strips underneath to boost support where needed. I have never been happier, and no longer feel the need to fiddle.

I found over the years that adding wedges results in the feeling that I want to increase Q, but if I increase Q I feel less aligned and not as strong or controlled. I cant speak for others but for me wedges are not good and I have tried extensively. It is worth noting that wedges initially feel good but after you get used to the new pedalling motion things go bad over a number of months. This is when people start talking about physio to strengthen up, but you cant strengthen up to overcome a misalignment - you have to correct the real problem.

for you with chronic problems I think this is an arch support issue and potentially the wrong Q factor and a wedge which is not required. Unfortunately, arch support, Q, cleat alignment and wedge are all intimately linked making it difficult for a fitter to get right, also fitters often favour wedges becasue they make a big visible difference. Change the wedge and potentially you change cleat angle, add arch support and potentially need less wedge. You may be able to reduce arch support and wedge making for a more natural foot position if you can reduce Q - or maybe not.

Its a ballancing act and I have been laughed at many times on here by people who think they can look at a photo and dignose anything but thats not the case. Or by people who think if you just buy expensive SIDI shoes all will be well. I have 3mm thick rubber strips on my insoles which are directly under the tendon in my foot, they make all the difference in the world but you couldnt look at me and determine i need them, they dont make a visible difference. In a SIDI shoe the same adjustment wont work becasue the shoe is slightly too narrow for my foot and the foot bed is slightly concave feeling - to me at least. I tried 5 different insoles and tweaked all of them, i tried wedges and different Q but the fact is those shoes didnt fit me. They were the right size, and maybe a solution existed somewhere, but I couldnt find it and a trip to a very good fitter turned out to be a waste of money too so I sold them. Sometimes you have to be prepared to accept something just isnt going to work for you.

Good knees start with good feet. Not all shoes will work for all people regardless of adjustments made and it is unlikely any off the shelf arch support will work for most people. Most people buy spesh shoes without realising what a wild adjustment is built into them - 2 wedges equivalent on both feet, thats massive in my view.

Im sure many will dissagree with everything I just said so take it or leave it. Good luck and NEVER give up!

Also there is a lot to be said for a week off the bike followed by a very perceptive and gentle 5 minutes pedalling. Over the week you will reset and recover, if you really listen to your body in those first 5 mins back on the bike it will tell you what is wrong. Be careful though, as soon as you are warmed up you will become acustomed to the misalignments and they will become invisible again.

atallen223

I think the shoes felt really weird at first and i eventually got used to them, and maybe the flatness of my feet mixed with the flatness of my feet didn't jive so well. Maybe I'll try a short ride today with the new shoes to see how that works.