Training advice needed
08-13-13, 03:14 PM
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Training advice needed
I need some training plan advice.
I'm new to riding and have been working on getting faster and stronger by simply riding as much as possible.
Since starting, I feel that I've gotten considerably better where I can go on mid-low distance (40miles give or take a few) group rides with local bike clubs without getting dropped and able to lead sprints and hang with faster group on training group rides that range 25~40 miles.
My goal is to be able to go on drop club rides and feel very comfortable (right now, I can hang but almost dead after the ride) and to be able to ride the next day again. I want to come up with a decent training plan with whatever the limited time that I have aside from work.
This is my current ride schedule that I do on weekly basis.
Monday - Training group ride, 35~40 miles. First 13 miles @ 19~22 mph. Rest at 20+ with sprints mixed in.
Tuesday - Rest
Wednesday - Casual group ride, 20 miles @ 18~20 mph. Very short sprint segments here and there. Then about 10 miles of 1 min all out intervals solo.
Thursday - Solo ride, 30 miles @ 18+ mph. Very windy trail. Very short sprint segments.
Friday - Rest
Saturday - Spirited Group ride, 40~50 miles. First 15 miles @ 19~22 mph. 25 miles @ 23+ mph, Rest at 18+
Sunday - Rest
With the goal that I have, what can I do or change my routine to better my ability to ride?
I'm new to riding and have been working on getting faster and stronger by simply riding as much as possible.
Since starting, I feel that I've gotten considerably better where I can go on mid-low distance (40miles give or take a few) group rides with local bike clubs without getting dropped and able to lead sprints and hang with faster group on training group rides that range 25~40 miles.
My goal is to be able to go on drop club rides and feel very comfortable (right now, I can hang but almost dead after the ride) and to be able to ride the next day again. I want to come up with a decent training plan with whatever the limited time that I have aside from work.
This is my current ride schedule that I do on weekly basis.
Monday - Training group ride, 35~40 miles. First 13 miles @ 19~22 mph. Rest at 20+ with sprints mixed in.
Tuesday - Rest
Wednesday - Casual group ride, 20 miles @ 18~20 mph. Very short sprint segments here and there. Then about 10 miles of 1 min all out intervals solo.
Thursday - Solo ride, 30 miles @ 18+ mph. Very windy trail. Very short sprint segments.
Friday - Rest
Saturday - Spirited Group ride, 40~50 miles. First 15 miles @ 19~22 mph. 25 miles @ 23+ mph, Rest at 18+
Sunday - Rest
With the goal that I have, what can I do or change my routine to better my ability to ride?
08-13-13, 03:41 PM
#2
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I need some training plan advice.
My goal is to be able to go on drop club rides and feel very comfortable (right now, I can hang but almost dead after the ride) and to be able to ride the next day again. I want to come up with a decent training plan with whatever the limited time that I have aside from work.
...
Very short sprint segments here and there. Then about 10 miles of 1 min all out intervals solo.
..
Very short sprint segments.
With the goal that I have, what can I do or change my routine to better my ability to ride?
My goal is to be able to go on drop club rides and feel very comfortable (right now, I can hang but almost dead after the ride) and to be able to ride the next day again. I want to come up with a decent training plan with whatever the limited time that I have aside from work.
...
Very short sprint segments here and there. Then about 10 miles of 1 min all out intervals solo.
..
Very short sprint segments.
With the goal that I have, what can I do or change my routine to better my ability to ride?
Ride more threshold intervals (95-100% of lactate heart rate which is about what you'll average over the last 20 minutes of an all-out 30 minute effort, or 90-100% of the power you could sustain for an hour). 10-20 minutes is good. You don't need much rest between. With some training you might ride 2x20 with 5 minutes between. You get faster by stressing systems needing improvement and being fresh enough to go hard for those efforts. 1 minute intervals for 10 minutes are not optimal for forcing adaptations relevant (more plentiful and powerful mitochondria) to 1-3 hour rides.
Increasing your threshold power also increases how fast you can go at lesser efforts and how long you can sustain them.
Also note heart rate based zones need to be calibrated against your physiology - there's too much variation between individuals for the %of age formulas to be valid. Chris Carmichael has a system built on a pair of 8 minute all-out efforts which are psychologically and logistically easier to accommodate than Friel's half hour time trial.
Ramping up total stress helps too where this can be intensity (you go from 2x10, to 3x10, to 2x20, etc. threshold intervals and end up doing that 2 days a week) and/or time based.
You also need to have less stressful (intensity^2 integrated over time) weeks and months.
Given limited time you need a training plan which focuses on high intensity because training stress is a function of intensity squared.
Consider a hypothetical 180 pound rider atop a 20 pound bike who can just manage 250W for an hour with with .4 m^2 Sd and .760 Cd per Gibertini and Grassi's paper and .004 coefficient of rolling resistance.
A 95% effort for him is 237W and 23 MPH solo on dead flat ground.
At a 15 MPH all-day endurance pace he's barely turning the pedals over at 80W which is a 32% effort.
To rack up the same training stress and endurance capacity he'd net from a 3x20 threshold workout totaling 1.5 hours with a warm-up, rest between intervals, and a little time to let the sweat evaporate riding at that pace he'd need to spend 9:15 to cover 138 miles.
Reading some books on cycling training would be wise. Popular selections are Friel's Cyclist's Training BIble and Carmichael's The Time Crunched Cyclist.
Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 08-13-13 at 06:12 PM.
08-13-13, 03:53 PM
#3
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Monday - Training group ride, 35~40 miles. First 13 miles @ 19~22 mph. Rest at 20+ with sprints mixed in.
Tuesday - Rest
Wednesday - Casual group ride, 20 miles @ 18~20 mph. Very short sprint segments here and there. Then about 10 miles of 1 min all out intervals solo.
Thursday - Solo ride, 30 miles @ 18+ mph. Very windy trail. Very short sprint segments.
Friday - Rest
Saturday - Spirited Group ride, 40~50 miles. First 15 miles @ 19~22 mph. 25 miles @ 23+ mph, Rest at 18+
Sunday - Rest
Tuesday - Rest
Wednesday - Casual group ride, 20 miles @ 18~20 mph. Very short sprint segments here and there. Then about 10 miles of 1 min all out intervals solo.
Thursday - Solo ride, 30 miles @ 18+ mph. Very windy trail. Very short sprint segments.
Friday - Rest
Saturday - Spirited Group ride, 40~50 miles. First 15 miles @ 19~22 mph. 25 miles @ 23+ mph, Rest at 18+
Sunday - Rest
Don't pay attention to speed. It's effort that counts. Get a power meter or use RPE (Rate of Perceived Exertion).
3 group rides a week? I don't disagree with Drew depending on what the group rides are like, but I don't think that's too much (again, depending). You seem to be getting plenty of rest elsewhere.
08-13-13, 04:43 PM
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Ride less with groups and more by yourself. Group ride fitness and terrain interaction with the pack speed and your weight are unlikely to produce optimum stimulus or rest.
Ride more threshold intervals (95-100% of lactate heart rate which is about what you'll average over the last 20 minutes of an all-out 30 minute effort, or 90-100% of the power you could sustain for an hour). 10-20 minutes is good. You don't need much rest between. With some training you might ride 2x20 with 5 minutes between. You get faster by stressing systems needing improvement and being fresh enough to go hard for that efforts. 1 minute intervals for 10 minutes are not optimal for forcing adaptations relevant (more plentiful and powerful mitochondria) to hour long rides.
Increasing your threshold power also increases how fast you can go at lesser efforts and how long you can sustain them.
Also note heart rate based zones need to be calibrated against your physiology - there's too much variation between individuals for the %of age formulas to be valid. Chris Carmichael has a system built on a pair of 8 minute all-out efforts which are psychologically and logistically easier to accommodate than Friel's half hour time trial.
Ramping up total stress helps too where this can be intensity (you go from 1 to 2 days a week riding threshold interval) and/or time based.
You also need to have less stressful (intensity^2 integrated over time) weeks and months.
Reading some books on cycling training would be wise. Popular selections are Friel's Cyclist's Training BIble and Carmichael's The Time Crunched Cyclist.
Ride more threshold intervals (95-100% of lactate heart rate which is about what you'll average over the last 20 minutes of an all-out 30 minute effort, or 90-100% of the power you could sustain for an hour). 10-20 minutes is good. You don't need much rest between. With some training you might ride 2x20 with 5 minutes between. You get faster by stressing systems needing improvement and being fresh enough to go hard for that efforts. 1 minute intervals for 10 minutes are not optimal for forcing adaptations relevant (more plentiful and powerful mitochondria) to hour long rides.
Increasing your threshold power also increases how fast you can go at lesser efforts and how long you can sustain them.
Also note heart rate based zones need to be calibrated against your physiology - there's too much variation between individuals for the %of age formulas to be valid. Chris Carmichael has a system built on a pair of 8 minute all-out efforts which are psychologically and logistically easier to accommodate than Friel's half hour time trial.
Ramping up total stress helps too where this can be intensity (you go from 1 to 2 days a week riding threshold interval) and/or time based.
You also need to have less stressful (intensity^2 integrated over time) weeks and months.
Reading some books on cycling training would be wise. Popular selections are Friel's Cyclist's Training BIble and Carmichael's The Time Crunched Cyclist.
Listen to this man. These are tried and true methods.
If you want more reading material try Friel's book.
08-13-13, 09:37 PM
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Ride less with groups and more by yourself. Group ride fitness and terrain interaction with the pack speed and your weight are unlikely to produce optimum stimulus or rest.
Ride more threshold intervals (95-100% of lactate heart rate which is about what you'll average over the last 20 minutes of an all-out 30 minute effort, or 90-100% of the power you could sustain for an hour). 10-20 minutes is good. You don't need much rest between. With some training you might ride 2x20 with 5 minutes between. You get faster by stressing systems needing improvement and being fresh enough to go hard for those efforts. 1 minute intervals for 10 minutes are not optimal for forcing adaptations relevant (more plentiful and powerful mitochondria) to 1-3 hour rides.
Increasing your threshold power also increases how fast you can go at lesser efforts and how long you can sustain them.
Also note heart rate based zones need to be calibrated against your physiology - there's too much variation between individuals for the %of age formulas to be valid. Chris Carmichael has a system built on a pair of 8 minute all-out efforts which are psychologically and logistically easier to accommodate than Friel's half hour time trial.
Ramping up total stress helps too where this can be intensity (you go from 2x10, to 3x10, to 2x20, etc. threshold intervals and end up doing that 2 days a week) and/or time based.
You also need to have less stressful (intensity^2 integrated over time) weeks and months.
Given limited time you need a training plan which focuses on high intensity because training stress is a function of intensity squared.
Consider a hypothetical 180 pound rider atop a 20 pound bike who can just manage 250W for an hour with with .4 m^2 Sd and .760 Cd per Gibertini and Grassi's paper and .004 coefficient of rolling resistance.
A 95% effort for him is 237W and 23 MPH solo on dead flat ground.
At a 15 MPH all-day endurance pace he's barely turning the pedals over at 80W which is a 32% effort.
To rack up the same training stress and endurance capacity he'd net from a 3x20 threshold workout totaling 1.5 hours with a warm-up, rest between intervals, and a little time to let the sweat evaporate riding at that pace he'd need to spend 9:15 to cover 138 miles.
Reading some books on cycling training would be wise. Popular selections are Friel's Cyclist's Training BIble and Carmichael's The Time Crunched Cyclist.
Ride more threshold intervals (95-100% of lactate heart rate which is about what you'll average over the last 20 minutes of an all-out 30 minute effort, or 90-100% of the power you could sustain for an hour). 10-20 minutes is good. You don't need much rest between. With some training you might ride 2x20 with 5 minutes between. You get faster by stressing systems needing improvement and being fresh enough to go hard for those efforts. 1 minute intervals for 10 minutes are not optimal for forcing adaptations relevant (more plentiful and powerful mitochondria) to 1-3 hour rides.
Increasing your threshold power also increases how fast you can go at lesser efforts and how long you can sustain them.
Also note heart rate based zones need to be calibrated against your physiology - there's too much variation between individuals for the %of age formulas to be valid. Chris Carmichael has a system built on a pair of 8 minute all-out efforts which are psychologically and logistically easier to accommodate than Friel's half hour time trial.
Ramping up total stress helps too where this can be intensity (you go from 2x10, to 3x10, to 2x20, etc. threshold intervals and end up doing that 2 days a week) and/or time based.
You also need to have less stressful (intensity^2 integrated over time) weeks and months.
Given limited time you need a training plan which focuses on high intensity because training stress is a function of intensity squared.
Consider a hypothetical 180 pound rider atop a 20 pound bike who can just manage 250W for an hour with with .4 m^2 Sd and .760 Cd per Gibertini and Grassi's paper and .004 coefficient of rolling resistance.
A 95% effort for him is 237W and 23 MPH solo on dead flat ground.
At a 15 MPH all-day endurance pace he's barely turning the pedals over at 80W which is a 32% effort.
To rack up the same training stress and endurance capacity he'd net from a 3x20 threshold workout totaling 1.5 hours with a warm-up, rest between intervals, and a little time to let the sweat evaporate riding at that pace he'd need to spend 9:15 to cover 138 miles.
Reading some books on cycling training would be wise. Popular selections are Friel's Cyclist's Training BIble and Carmichael's The Time Crunched Cyclist.
Thanks for the thorough explanation.
So what I gather with my limited knowledge at this point is that I would need to do more solo high intensity training ride, 20 minute intervals with 5 minute breaks(I'm assuming break is simply slowing down, not stopping) in between. The intensity is should be at about 90~100% of effort I can hold for an hour (since I'm note sure exactly what the lactaet threshold is right now)
Then read some materials in the non-cycling time
Am I understanding this correctly? Not to be annoying, just to ignorant to even know what I understand is correct haha
08-13-13, 10:05 PM
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Yup, agree that you're taking too many rest days. Better to ride and give yourself an occasional 'easy day' when you feel the need for it. One rest day per week is good, two is OK, but that's it if you really want to build your conditioning. Plenty of guys I train with, notably those who race a lot, rarely take actual rest days.
08-14-13, 12:16 AM
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Thanks for the thorough explanation.
So what I gather with my limited knowledge at this point is that I would need to do more solo high intensity training ride, 20 minute intervals with 5 minute breaks(I'm assuming break is simply slowing down, not stopping) in between. The intensity is should be at about 90~100% of effort I can hold for an hour (since I'm note sure exactly what the lactaet threshold is right now)
Then read some materials in the non-cycling time
So what I gather with my limited knowledge at this point is that I would need to do more solo high intensity training ride, 20 minute intervals with 5 minute breaks(I'm assuming break is simply slowing down, not stopping) in between. The intensity is should be at about 90~100% of effort I can hold for an hour (since I'm note sure exactly what the lactaet threshold is right now)
Then read some materials in the non-cycling time
