Jens Voigt's Position...what do you think?
#26
I'm doing it wrong.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,875
Bikes: Rivendell Appaloosa, Rivendell Frank Jones Sr., Trek Fuel EX9, Kona Jake the Snake CR, Niner Sir9
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9742 Post(s)
Liked 2,812 Times
in
1,664 Posts
Jens vs. Chuck Norris..........
Man, I just don't know.
Man, I just don't know.
#27
Other Worldly Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: The old Northwest Coast.
Posts: 1,540
Bikes: 1973 Motobecane Grand Jubilee, 1981 Centurion Super LeMans, 2010 Gary Fisher Wahoo, 2003 Colnago Dream Lux, 2014 Giant Defy 1, 2015 Framed Bikes Minnesota 3.0, several older family Treks
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked 136 Times
in
53 Posts
Jens Voigt's Position...what do you think?
Jens Voight Watts have their own exponents.
__________________
Make ******* Grate Cheese Again
Make ******* Grate Cheese Again
#29
velo-dilettante
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,317
Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 3,114 Times
in
1,683 Posts
^haha!
#30
Mostly Harmless
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chittenango, NY
Posts: 56,604
Bikes: Have two wheels
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13720 Post(s)
Liked 4,533 Times
in
2,509 Posts
#31
OM boy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,376
Bikes: a bunch
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 646 Times
in
438 Posts
Jens - a tall guy, long legs and arms, short torso.
his position is not that crunched up for him
here's his bike, his setup specs
https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/a...-series-36321/
note the saddlesetback and saddle to bar dim...
short torso and long legs usually means a lot more setup options when it come to reach - my take...
seems to work for him
his position is not that crunched up for him
here's his bike, his setup specs
https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/a...-series-36321/
note the saddlesetback and saddle to bar dim...
short torso and long legs usually means a lot more setup options when it come to reach - my take...
seems to work for him
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 533
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
We all have our own particular anatomy, and different things work for different people.
If I had more flexibility, spent more hours in the saddle, and prioritized performance over comfort, I may have had a way more aggressive position on the bike as well.
If I had more flexibility, spent more hours in the saddle, and prioritized performance over comfort, I may have had a way more aggressive position on the bike as well.
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Check out Jens Voigt's position in the drops below.
Do you guys run this much arm/knee overlap in the drops?
Granted he is riding the rivet to open his hip angle a bit but seem like his handlebar is in awfully close.
Who is to quibble with a top pro but what do you guys think?
Do you guys run this much arm/knee overlap in the drops?
Granted he is riding the rivet to open his hip angle a bit but seem like his handlebar is in awfully close.
Who is to quibble with a top pro but what do you guys think?
Setting a bike up like a pro does not mean you will ride like a pro.
BTW...Jens, as i recall has six kids. No wonder he has to keep riding... The bigger point is he pretty much crushes the old thingy about road bike riding and fertility. They guy probably rides close to 35,000 miles a year.
That is all...
In the fit world, we say "He's got the Jens Voight fit..." which is the equivalent of "I was just riding along..."
Last edited by roadwarrior; 08-23-13 at 05:08 AM.
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Another urban legend quashed...
And I know you are kidding, but it cracks me when I come out here and read about how people can self fit. My bigger point is that his riding position is actually not something he just made up. He tested the damn thing.
#35
Peloton Shelter Dog
41 Facepalm #897 : A thread suggesting Jens friggin Voigt needs a bike fitting.
Somebody shoot me. Please.
Somebody shoot me. Please.
__________________
https://www.cotsiscad.com
https://www.cotsiscad.com
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
41 Facepalm #897 : A thread suggesting Jens friggin Voigt needs a bike fitting.
I won't shoot you. I just chalk it up to enthusiast talk.
They actually carry a Retul with them on the road just in case.
#37
Senior Member
41 Facepalm #897 : A thread suggesting Jens friggin Voigt needs a bike fitting.
Somebody shoot me. Please.
Somebody shoot me. Please.
What do you find so hard to believe about a pro needing a bike fiting?(not that Jens necessary 'needs' one) I suspect they get fit far more often than the pundits around here. And, I suspect there are more than a few who would like to be riding a position other than the one they are currently outfitted with.
__________________
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
#38
Senior Member
Jens doesn't read books on bike fitting. He beats them with a bicycle chain until they surrender the information he wants.
__________________
Momento mori, amor fati.
Momento mori, amor fati.
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Dream on. There's no way any of us are putting you out of your misery that easily.
What do you find so hard to believe about a pro needing a bike fiting?(not that Jens necessary 'needs' one) I suspect they get fit far more often than the pundits around here. And, I suspect there are more than a few who would like to be riding a position other than the one they are currently outfitted with.
What do you find so hard to believe about a pro needing a bike fiting?(not that Jens necessary 'needs' one) I suspect they get fit far more often than the pundits around here. And, I suspect there are more than a few who would like to be riding a position other than the one they are currently outfitted with.
#40
OMC
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960
Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times
in
49 Posts
His NP (normalized power) was 279 watts. His IF was .76, so you can interpolate backwards from there and see his FTP is ~370 watts. I'm sure there are a bunch of guys here with a higher FTP. Voigt would crush them into chalk dust in a race. It ain't just numbers.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Last edited by revchuck; 08-23-13 at 05:44 AM.
#41
Voice of the Industry
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1188 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
8 Posts
I think.....you are obsessed. There is very little correlation between bike fits of one rider to the next, graphs have previously been posted which prove it - as much as 70mm difference in reach between riders of the same height. There are articles online that also talk about pros changing their stem lengths and seat heights between stages, cavendish is a notable example, big changes too. These guys ride how they are comfortable because fit is extremely personal. You simply can't measure someone and then set their bike up to some formula, if you do, it is unlikely to be optimal. My opinion of the photo, it looks like he's one of the most successful old blokes ever to ride a bike, you should learn from him rather than question or critique.
I probably shouldn't even respond to you but here goes.
Jens is great. I do not question his fit for him. It was a general question about arm/knee overlap at the top of the pedal stroke.
It appears to be more than I've seen. It is just an idle observation...not an indictment...lol.
#42
Peloton Shelter Dog
__________________
https://www.cotsiscad.com
https://www.cotsiscad.com
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
I am sorry for you that you rambled on as you did.
I probably shouldn't even respond to you but here goes.
Jens is great. I do not question his fit for him. It was a general question about arm/knee overlap at the top of the pedal stroke.
It appears to be more than I've seen. It is just an idle observation...not an indictment...lol.
I probably shouldn't even respond to you but here goes.
Jens is great. I do not question his fit for him. It was a general question about arm/knee overlap at the top of the pedal stroke.
It appears to be more than I've seen. It is just an idle observation...not an indictment...lol.
Ahhhh....the 41. :"Well, there's time I'll never get back..."
There was a thread a few days back, and Nachoman posted a reply. Maybe the best one ever...
"If you eliminate the random unprepared goofballs, you've eliminated 95% of the 41."
Last edited by roadwarrior; 08-23-13 at 06:04 AM.
#44
Voice of the Industry
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1188 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
8 Posts
Jens - a tall guy, long legs and arms, short torso.
his position is not that crunched up for him
here's his bike, his setup specs
https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/a...-series-36321/
note the saddlesetback and saddle to bar dim...
short torso and long legs usually means a lot more setup options when it come to reach - my take...
seems to work for him
his position is not that crunched up for him
here's his bike, his setup specs
https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/a...-series-36321/
note the saddlesetback and saddle to bar dim...
short torso and long legs usually means a lot more setup options when it come to reach - my take...
seems to work for him
Thanks for posting his bio and bike specs zen...appreciate that. He does ride with his bar pretty close in and down.
There maybe a correlation between his proportions as you say and his particular fit....very tall guy with huge saddle height and massive drop.
He also rides with long cranks.
Thanks again.
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Maybe we can get him to post a video in a thread "How does my fit look?" and listen to the geniuses critique it.
#46
Voice of the Industry
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1188 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
8 Posts
It is almost as sad as funny. You can't post anything here without at least somebody going off half cocked. Weird dynamic.
Thanks for your comments about Jens and in particular your comment about his mileage which is just unfathomable.
Not sure you read about Boonen's exploits recently...another very big guy on the pro peloton as you know. He is off the bike for an indeterminate period because of a saddle cyst. Even top guys fall prey to the unbelievable repetition of pro cycling in spite of their vigilance to avert such issues.
Didn't know Jens had so many kids either. Probably the bike is his only freedom.
Cheers
#47
Other Worldly Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: The old Northwest Coast.
Posts: 1,540
Bikes: 1973 Motobecane Grand Jubilee, 1981 Centurion Super LeMans, 2010 Gary Fisher Wahoo, 2003 Colnago Dream Lux, 2014 Giant Defy 1, 2015 Framed Bikes Minnesota 3.0, several older family Treks
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked 136 Times
in
53 Posts
Thats pretty interesting..implies that the fit changes and they adapt. As a golfer who's been club fitted, I appreciate a data driven biometric approach as opposed to a voodoo artist with a divining rod. That's not a slam against a fitter, just that Retul figured out a way to do it better and it also makes it understandable to the cyclist.
__________________
Make ******* Grate Cheese Again
Make ******* Grate Cheese Again
#48
Voice of the Industry
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1188 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
8 Posts
Thats pretty interesting..implies that the fit changes and they adapt. As a golfer who's been club fitted, I appreciate a data driven biometric approach as opposed to a voodoo artist with a divining rod. That's not a slam against a fitter, just that Retul figured out a way to do it better and it also makes it understandable to the cyclist.
There are many schools on fit for both golf and cycling. A biometric fit is only as good as a biometric model which is just that...a model that likely doesn't crunch the 50 parameters involved in optimizing performance.
I have posted this about the great Lee Trevino...short little fat Mexican...also brilliant who grew up poor and without a father...in the hall of fame. Lee basically aligned 30 degrees left and hit a push on every shot. Super strong grip...dead shut clubface at the top of his swing. Very unorthodox. Punters would ask Lee, hey Lee, why is it you never took lessons and had your swing adjusted to a more contemporary model? He said quite simply, he never found a teacher he couldn't beat.
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Thats pretty interesting..implies that the fit changes and they adapt. As a golfer who's been club fitted, I appreciate a data driven biometric approach as opposed to a voodoo artist with a divining rod. That's not a slam against a fitter, just that Retul figured out a way to do it better and it also makes it understandable to the cyclist.
If I switch to a new bike, I always get it set up rather than just starting with old dimensions.
It's like clothes...if you lose 10 pounds you get to go shopping or dig into the closet for the skinny clothes. If youlose 10 pounds your bike fit changes.
#50
Senior Member
Without question it works great for him and by no way do I question his fit for him.
Thanks for posting his bio and bike specs zen...appreciate that. He does ride with his bar pretty close in and down.
There maybe a correlation between his proportions as you say and his particular fit....very tall guy with huge saddle height and massive drop.
He also rides with long cranks.
Thanks again.
Thanks for posting his bio and bike specs zen...appreciate that. He does ride with his bar pretty close in and down.
There maybe a correlation between his proportions as you say and his particular fit....very tall guy with huge saddle height and massive drop.
He also rides with long cranks.
Thanks again.
I have a similiar fit with jens. He has a inch moee drop and I have an inch more reach. I'm two inches taller than him and also have long legs.
Just to be clear, knee elbow overlap is in no way harmful or a bad thing. It just happens sometimes