I wouldn't argue with him. Pcad is an expert on being obsolete.

Exactly.

The way you are stating it definitely comes out as a fact. An entirely wrong fact but feel free to keep that pipe dream alive as it seems it's all the steel and aluminum people have these days.

Ohh and BTW you should also call Ferrari, Lambo, Bugatti, and especially Lexus LFA owners and tell them their car will disintegrate all on it's own in a couple years and that they should have ordered it made of steel instead.

I have facts that can trump your facts! so what? The facts you find are bias opinions, so are mine! this is the same thing about whether or not democrats or republicans have the better ideas, you might side with the democrats and show facts to prove your point, I might side with the republicans and show you facts to prove my point. At the end of the day is all comes down to an opinion, a philosophy that agrees with the way we think.

Facts are the tool of the devil. I have faith.

You just mentioned the stupidest reason in the world to go with Ferrari vs whatever. Ferrari and the such are high speed race cars and the manufactures are making those cars as light as possible to make them as fast as possible...one thing though...they didn't make them to last as long, that isn't their point. And crash worthiness of carbon fiber used in cars is very good, why is that? Because they have developed honeycomb designs that can hold up to forces better than the old way using crumple zones...we don't have that luxury on our bikes because it would drive up the weight and the cost. The below videos will show you the inferior aspects to carbon fiber.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk98yvozq1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvk63...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=p92Stnnigjs
http://www.bicyclepaper.com/articles...n-Fiber-Frames
http://www.light-bicycle.com/choose-...ke-frames.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_bicycle

I can go on and on but again all of this is meaningless because I'm not going to be able to sway your opinion nor will you sway mine.

Can't argue with someone who thinks facts don't exist.

Not a carbon snob by any means. I do have a couple and do like them but I also like steel, Alu and Ti.

construction material characteristics is not just opinion. there are physical effects that can be measured.

I recently had a big, nasty crash. The bars hit the top-tube of my aluminum bike so hard, the bars bent; the TT was unscathed. If I ever ride again, it will be on Aluminium.

Mclaren/Lambo and the like are, in fact, designing cars with carbon bodies and monocoque chassis that will last as long or longer than their metallic equivalents. They don't strictly build race cars out of carbon any more, and there is nothing in the owner's manual of, say, an Aventador or MP4-12C that warns an owner that their chassis will fail from carbon fatigue at some point. They will remain stiff and functional for decades, as designed. There are trade offs to using carbon in an auto chassis versus aluminum (cost and production time being the biggest ones), but longevity is not one of them. Even the first generation of F1 cars made largely out of CF in the early 80s are still raced in historic events without issue. These auto engineers know a thing or two about lifespans, and CF can in fact last for decades. Just look at the carbon bits in aircraft like the A300. This whole post is so misinformed...

I don't really know what a manifesto is, but I think this is how they start.

I'm sorry, opinions are not facts despite what you may have heard at FOX.

The facts regarding both materials are verifiable and repeatable. There is ample peer reviewed material. Videos of stuff breaking or people offering opinions are not facts.

Videos of cars driving over stuff are not facts unless that is what you want to do with your bicycle

But, if you did want to drive over a frame with your car, you could design a carbon tube in such a way as to resist those forces that would be lighter, stiffer, stronger and with a longer fatigue life than any other frame material in use today.

And you're right about two things; you will never sway my opinion with junk like that and I will never sway your opinion no matter how many facts I present.

I plan on being hit by cars most every ride. What frame material is best suited to my constantly being hospitalized? Due to the mounting hospital bills I would like this bike to be cheap since I won't be able to afford new ones.

-thanks

ps it also must be extremely light since I'm a weight weenie

Chinerello.


And please post pics of those mangled pieces of crap. I would really enjoy them.

Don't worry about it. Since cars are now going to be 100% carbon fiber they will asplode at the slightest contact.

Like rust?

The new F150's will be aluminum. Should I worry about that?

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/truck...ry?id=21517891

As long as it's not steel. You can hit steel with a hammer and it won't break.

Just bent the crap out of my right front quarter panel of my car hitting it with a hammer. Thanks for spreading your lies!

That's just your opinion.

:roflmao:

Actually, alloy has seen a resurgence for two reasons. The first are genuine advancements in processing the material (and an additive, or two) that make stronger alloy with longer fatigue life and the second is the supply of composites barely keeping pace with demand keeping pressure on pricing. (although there is a glut of low modulus Chinese carbon that has found its way into the bike industry, among others).

and I can't argue with someone who thinks if the facts don't line up with the way they think then the facts are wrong. Plus I can't argue with someone who cannot comprehend what they read. Of course I read facts about CF so I know all about the other side of the coin, but you refuse to read the other side of the coin in regards to the negatives of CF, I least I read both sides and understand the issues and made my decision based on those, you just made your decision by marketing pressures.