Branimir

Shimano announced 11 speed 105 group some time ago:
Shimano 105 5800 2014/15 groupset - first look | Cyclingnews.com

What's going to happen to the current 10 speed 105 group? Will it go out of production, or there'll be two 105 groups at the same time?

This is silly, Sora and Tiagra are still 9 speed, and there's even Claris and 2203, and I think Claris is 8 speed? Are they going to migrate Sora and Tiagra to 10 speed or?

I was thinking of getting a full 105 group before it goes 11 speed, so I'm trying to catch the best moment while it's still in online store (bike24.com for instance.).

Though, I must say I went to a LBS today and took at the 10 speed 105, actually mostly at the lever, hm, shifter pad is plastic? Maybe I'm just too used to my 1st gen Veloce ergos which don't feel like I'm going to brake the with my fingers, but on the other hand I used to have Xenon 9 speed ergos, they where all plastic, and where practicaly indestructible...

No love for 10 speed anymore?
Where is this world going to? Heh

Ideas, comments, rants, roumors, please!

RPK79

Tiagra is 10 speed.

Shimano Tiagra 4600 10 Spd Double Groupset at Ribble Cycles

Branimir

Sorry, my mistake, I was looking at the Shimano website, maybe I read it wrong.

macca33

10-speed 5700 may trickle down towards Tiagra/Sora, in some shape or form, but spares / new-old-stock will reduce in availability over time. There will always be something around though - whether it is 105 / Ultegra / DA or Tiagra 10-speed, if one has an issue, or needs to replace a component, there should be that opportunity for some time to come.

cheers

SundayNiagara

105/5800 di2 maybe?

bleui

I'm also afraid that the 11 speed is where the world is going, now with SRAM Rival also gone 22, that will left only Apex groupset for SRAM and Tiagra for Shimano, yuck

fstshrk

I hope not. The shape of the brifters in the 5700 are horrible. Notice the change with the 5800 brifters.

fstshrk

Nothing wrong with either of these drivetrains.

bleui

True. Did I sound disgusted?

macca33

The ergos of the 5700/6700/7900 aren't the greatest (although I don't mind 6700) - probably why Tiagra 4600 is based upn the 5600/6600/7800 ergos currently.

Axiom

5800 11 speed is available on eBay from Japan, $575 + $75 for shipping. Doesn't really seem worth it when you could spend a couple hundred more for Ultegra.

Leinster

Some might argue "Why spend the extra couple hundred bucks for Ultegra when you can get the same functionality and only a little more weight with 105?"

Long Tom

It would depend on the bike for me. 10-sp 105 is a very good system, really. It works great. Entirely adequate and then some for a practical working bike. On a bike I'm geeking out on the 6800 Ultegra is certainly better; just a superior feel. But practically speaking they all do the same thing.

I currently have bikes with 9-sp Tiagra, 10-sp 105, and 11-sp Ultegra... hell, the Tiagra bikes shifts just fine.

dralways

How many miles on your flashy Roubaix now, LT?

vwchad

I would imagine that Shimano will be releasing the "NEW" Tiagra group soon. AKA relabled 5700..... Just a guess.

dtrain

10 speed but based on the 6800/5800 would be my preference, not that I'm a large sample or important client.

john.b

Ultegra 6800 shifting -- especially the front derailleur -- is sublime. Easily worth the extra couple hundred bucks, IMO.

vwchad

I'm sure many would agree with you. However, I doubt Shimano will put that much effort into it. Despite the grumbling on sites like this about the shortcomings of the group, like hood shape or shift throw, the 5700 group is a very solid performer. Perfect? No, but an excellent value and reliable group. I've said it before, that I believe that the 5700 group is the sweet spot for many riders. I see an excellent opportunity here for folks looking to upgrade to a new bike. Picture this, an "entry level" carbon fiber bike with Tiagra (rebadged 5700). Fantastic value possibility IMO.

I'll be curious to see how this all goes. I've got an old steel frame I was going to build up with modern components. I may consider waiting to see if the Tiagra upgrade follows predictions and if so, will the pricing be similar to current Tiagra through sites like Ribble? One can only hope.

zymphad

Why do you keep asking this dumb question? 105 5800 has already been revealed what it will have. Stop asking and look at what has been already been written.

Because it's been revealed 105 5800 has adopted the same changes to FD and shifting as 6800? Same shifting mechanism, same indexing/pull and same extended arm on the FD. And 5800 likely will remain few hundred bucks cheaper.

Curious what you do when shifting that the plastic shifter will be affected? How are you going to break it? 105 5700 is very popular for cyclo-cross, and haven't read of anyone breaking it. If you break it, you're abusing the shifter way too much. Only requires feather tough to shift.

And why are you worried about 105 10 speed vs 11 speed? The 5800 update will have improved shaping on the shifter and hoods, improved FD shifting and improved RD. And pricing should be around the same as current 5700, I expect 5800 will be around 450-500 on sites like MerlinCycles.

5700 will be around for a while, so don't worry. You can still find plenty of 6700 Ultegra groupsets on Ebay and various sites. And the price has not gone down, in fact you can find cheaper prices for 6800 than what I have found for 6700. 5700 price will likely remain around $450-550 after 5800 is released.

SundayNiagara

If you aren't interested, why do you care to ask me about it?

john.b

Currently 6800 holds the consensus "best shifting for the buck" crown.

5800 may -- or may not -- be as good as 6800, we won't know until it actually ships and people can start to get real world experience on it.

Branimir

Sorry if this topic is going into flame wars, it was not my attention.

I currently ride 8 speed Campagnolo group, and an upgrade to something more modern is not a bad option, though I have found used 10 speed 105 group locally for decent money, I'm even more intrigued to buy it.

I guess 11 speed chain is not as durable as 10 speed? After all, it is thinner.
I'm not racing so going 11spd is not really important.

11spd on the other hand is still a mystery around here, road cycling is not developed and LBS's don't carry spare cassettes or chains, so maintenance is purely internet webshop related.

As for plastic thing, I suppose shifting is not as "harsh" as with 1st gen Campagnolo where you need really to have strong wrists for shifting. If it's easy clicking, it won't ever fail. That's one of the reasons I want to upgrade.

zymphad

I don't need to use my wrists to shift, I can use my pinky to shift the plastic part and only need two fingers for the aluminum part.

Where are you getting 11 speed isn't as durable? I haven't read of any durability issues from Ultegra 11 and Dura Ace 11 or Campagnolo/SRAM 11 speed products.

The wear and tear on a chain is not on the sides and it doesn't stretch as some may think. The wear is on the pin that the teeth of the crank/cogs tensioned on. That wear and tear likely will remain the same regardless if it's 11 or 10 speed. The teeth spacing far as I see are the same between 11 and 10. If you have a lot of wear on the sides, may want to get your bike retuned? The pins should wear before the sides do for replacement.

zymphad

Agreed, so I could just replace the crank, FD and RD with the new designs. Somehow Shimano would have adjusted the FD so it would work with 5700 shifter. That would have been convenient.

I replaced the 105 RD with 6700 Ultegra RD and when the 105 crank wears out, probably just replace it with 6700 crank.

I have had no issues with FD, I still use Tiagra 4600 FD and no issues here, trim works, and it shifts fine. I trust the reviews of the 6800 subliime FD shifting, but Tiagra with my 5700 has been fine. It shifts up and down in about half a turn of the crank right now.
- But will say the 5800 updates, it's the FD and RD shifting that attracts me most then hood/shifter shaping. The 11 speed, weight improvements and crank updates don't matter to me.

link0

Well Apex is completely identical to Rival actually, except the Crankset (not hollow) and the Shift levers (not carbon). Everything else is 100% identical.