caloso

The old school way to improve cadence is to get a fixed gear with 70 gear inches or less. Ride that for a month or so and you'll be comfortable at 100 rpm.

bahula03

Lots of good advice in the thread, but this aspect seems mostly overlooked. If your knee pain is increasing proportionally with an increase in cadence, there's probably something wrong with the way the bike was fitted for you. The alternative being that your knees are worn out/damaged in some way...less likely. As sore and worn out as you can get riding, joint pain shouldn't come into the equation at your age if everything is setup correctly IMO.

pdedes

Untrained cyclists are more efficient at low cadences. So OP, you aren't doing anything wrong but you are early in your evolution from bike rider to cyclist. Use easier gears, spend time in the saddle and spinning will come to feel natural.

RollCNY

What worked for me was practicing higher cadence on flat ground, by holding a fixed speed, but intentionally using an easier gear. It feels unnatural at first, and you will think you should be pushing harder. But as you acclimate, you will find that you naturally start apply more force along with more cadence, and your speed goes up. You will ease back into a similar gear that you were riding initially, but at a faster pace.

It took me 6 months to go from an average cadence of 60rpm to an average of 75. It took another 6 months to get that to 82ish.

Slackerprince

I'm a reformed masher, and I'll just say that it takes discipline to ride at higher cadences.
Your instinct will be to push harder, but you need to concentrate on perfect circles.
If there is any distinct pushing or pulling (assuming you're clipped-in) in your pedaling, then you need to work on your feet moving in circles, rather than up and down.
When I first started working on this, I felt like I was bouncing up and down on the saddle, but as I worked on those circles, it smoothed out.
It takes time and focus.
If you don't use a cadence monitor, you can estimate by counting your revolutions in a 10 second sample, then multiplying it into a minute.
Keep after it.

S

Brian Ratliff

This works! 46/18 gearing is perfect for cadence work; it's low enough to get you up moderate hills, but high enough you won't be pushing much over 200rpm on the way down.

Or just pedal faster in a lower gear, but this takes some discipline.

Also, if you have knee pain, your bike doesn't fit right. If the pain is at the front of the knee and below the kneecap, your saddle is too low (most knee problems are because of this). If the pain is in the tendons behind your knee, your saddle is likely too high. Anywhere else and you have something wrong with your pedaling mechanics (maybe twisting your knee out or something). Your knees should not hurt at all from pedaling a bicycle.

But yes, once you get the fit right, fixed gear is the way to go to increase pedaling rpm.

banerjek

Two thoughts come to mind.

The first is that it sounds like there's something wrong with the setup of the bike. Knee pain should decrease, not increase with cadence. You are measuring cadence correctly, but a cheap cadence meter is a better way to go. 60 is a seriously slow cadence. Don't worry about getting out of wind -- you're just out of shape. That will improve as you ride more.

You need to have someone evaluate your pedaling technique as well. There is definitely something wrong, and I think it's going to be obvious to someone who knows what they're doing.

You should be able to hold 120 RPM for long periods of time (even if you don't choose to) and 90-100 all day. There are guys considerably older than you that can max out over 200 RPM.

Doughboy6

As everyone seems to have mentioned, get a computer and a cadence sensor. This will help you visualize exactly how fast you are pedaling and be able to relate it to your speed and exhaustion level. Another great trick is to use rollers, especially in the off-season...just know that they are the devil

bikefoo

The pain is right above the cap, its not really a pain, a slight burn and then my muscle burns and then im out of breathe. Perhaps its the muscle but its so close to the attachment at the cap that i assume its the joint?

Reading posts from other mashers i think is on point for some of the problems i am having. I need to work on several aspects of my form.

RollCNY

"Mashing" is no guarantee of knee pain. On an average ride in my area, my cadence goes from 30 to 165 rpm (single speed bike). There is no pain associated with doing it.

banerjek

That you experience pain and get out of breath so quickly suggest you might be pushing yourself too hard. Trying too hard can actually make your technique worse and aggravate other problems.

Don't worry too much about your speed and who gets by you. That will improve as you get better.

StanSeven

Glad you mentioned that. Mashing causes knee pain is another one of cycling myths. Knee pain is caused by improper fit or a bio-mechanical problem of the rider.

banerjek

How long are you mashing? I can certainly climb a 1000' hill in high gear at a cadence below 40 RPM without suffering ill effects. But what you can do for a short time and what you can do for a long time are very different.

Mashing will magnify technique errors or biomechanical issues. Most people benefit from a higher cadence.

bikefoo

Mashing is no problem. Im going out for a big ride this evening so i will try increasing my cadence and see what happens. Seeing as I have 30 years of bad habits maybe the one time i tried it was a mental block. Eh? Ill give feedback tonight.

Machka 

You may be giving yourself quadriceps tendonitis from all that mashing.


Are there spinning classes in your area?

StanSeven

I definitely agree that mashing isn't as efficient or something you want to do all the time. I meant that if someone doesn't have bio-mechanical problems, mashing doesn't injure knees.

Audiophile1178

I'm in the same boat as you and roughly same age (35) as i Just recently bought my first road bike. I get winded fairly fast on rides as I'm trying to stay around 65-70 cadence. I don't have any knee pain but do get some lower back pain and upper arm pain/shoulder pain after long rides. I'm going to try a shorter stem to see how that works out for me. I'm out of shape and have always like riding my bike as a kid so I figured that I'd get back into it. I, also, have a fairly poor diet like you do but CAN'T afford to lose any weight as I'm already VERY skinny. I figured that just like most things it takes practice, practice, and more practice to get there. I'll probably get a trainer in the winter and hopefully by next spring I'll be in the 90's without any issue.

FWIW, if you're in the US I bought a wired Sigma 16.12 Bike Computer with Cadence for $32.87 on eBay and it's been working great. The wireless version (16.12 STS) costs twice as much, uses three times the amount of batteries, and doesn't last as long so I figured what's the point in getting the wireless if the wired has the same features for less money.

Also, if you already have an old bike computer and are able to run the wire down to your pedal you might want to watch this YouTube video that shows you how to turn a normal bike computer in a cadence computer. You won't know how fast you're going but you will be able to know your cadence.

DIY How to make a bicycle speedometer into a RPM cadence meter - YouTube

bikefoo

Ok. Moved seat up 1/4" I think it needs to move forward about an 1/8th" but I had a couple of my mountain bike friends watch me and I'm spinning at about 80 for cadence. I did practice spinning higher cadence and the feeling I get is not exactly a pain. There is a slight warming directly above the knee cap and eventually I tire out, it does feel awkward as I normally only spin that fast when sprinting. Overall this makes me much happier knowing I'm not completely mashing away. I do need to work on making circles, my pedal stroke is pathetic.

HiFiGuy1

I agree with this. Along with a cycling computer, this will get you where you want to go. Cadence and form are very important, especially if you have knee issues, so keep it relatively light and work over time on increasing your cadence, which will also eventually increase your speed. Use the downhill sections to practice higher cadence with light loading, and still get the benefit of decent pace because of the descent.

surgeonstone

Now, pedal even faster.

e_guevara

Though getting an HR monitor is good, it opens a whole new set of variables for the OP. HR training is for the more advanced cyclist.

Go by RPE (Rated Percieved Exertion) to measure your cardiovascular effort. Rate you exertion on a scale of 0 to 10 - 0 being doing nothing, and 10 being totally exhausted to point of collapse. Try to stay within 6~7 for longer periods while learning to gradually increase your cadence, then increase accordingly. In time, you'll be able to stay within 7~8 for the entire ride at ~90 RPM.

e_guevara

I agree with Machka here.

The knee pain is probably not joint-related (arthritis), but more muscle-related (tendinosis).

It's similar to the feeling of feeling pain in the arms after trying to curl a very heavy weight. The head of the muscle near the joint pulls on the tendon excessively.

Learning to pedal at higher cadences using lighter gears will save your knees.

gregf83 

All cyclists, trained and untrained, are more efficient at lower cadences. As your fitness and power output increases it becomes more important to ride at a higher cadence to minimize potential knee problems but it's not more efficient.

If you're just starting out, it's unlikely you have enough power to do any real damage to your legs and it tends to be self-limiting in any case.

Spending time worrying about your cadence is overblown. If you just ride more and build fitness and power your cadence will naturally go up. A higher cadence isn't a useful goal per se, it's just a by-product of riding with higher power. On the other hand increasing your cadence won't help your power.

spdracr39

Except you are saying the exact same thing only asking the OP to guess instead of using a tool that gives you actual numbers.

surgeonstone

Okay, now comes the part where you pedal even faster, as long as you can.