colnago62

I have seen people juggle chainsaws with no issue at all. Kids play out in the street here all the time an never get hit.

Elvo

And i've seen people run into the wheel they were drafting because they were not paying attention. But anecdotes aside, riders who are not strong enough to ride at your speed and do not announce their presence are people you do not want on your wheel.

colnago62

As I said before, someone riding my wheel doesn't bother me. It does bother some people. I ride several bike lengths back on riders that I come up upon if I have no intention of passing. Some riders care, some riders don't care. In my experience, it has nothing to do with their level of expertise. I find, in many cases it has more to do with how tired they are. Riders seem to be grumpy at the end of a ride and little things seem to bother them more.

achoo

For something you claim doesn't bother you, you sure seem to be going out of your way in trying to justify and/or minimize it, to the point of misquoting me.

And in doing so you again make the same logical error you made earlier: assuming because YOU didn't see something, it's not possible.

It must be nice knowing your experiences define the totality of existence.

colnago62

I just figured a childish response deserved an equally childish response.

195cranky

To FLvector who was kind enough to make some snide remarks about my post and he wrote...

What if they are in stealth mode and you don't hear or see them?
who it is, What does that matter?
what kind of rider they are, You can't tell that when they are drafting you.
and maybe even where they are headed. Who cares where they are going unless they plan to buy you a beer after the ride.

So, to address one point at a time...

Stealth mode -
If they are that quiet more often than not a good rider, clean bike and drivetrain, and riding pretty fast to be tucked in. Not a problem, yet. But I hope to see a shadow, hear something, most do let me know they are wheel sucking which is cool, or see him when I take a quick glance or hear a shift. Then I would make sure I acknowledge them and that they are there and start pointing out stuff as needed. My nice gesture to him to let him know I now know he is there and I will for sure check him out if he wants to take a pull or I flick an elbow or move over for him to do some work if he can. No problem. Again, more than likely a good, experienced, safe rider. Glad to have someone enjoying the fruits of my labor and pull efforts.

what does it matter who it is? -
Well, I guess to me it matters a lot. If it is some newbie idiot Fredly trying to hang on with crossed eyes seeing red who can make a mistake and possibly take me out. Or as one did a couple years ago, run right into my brand new Campy G3 Eurus after I motioned stop coming up behind row of cars and he almost took me down at slow speed, broke two spokes, bent wheel, and all the fun and expense that he still after offering has not paid me for to replace spokes and fix wheel. So yeah, I guess it really matters who it is behind me be it one inch, six inches or 5 feet. If it is someone I know and have ridden with and I trust - no problem. If it someone fit, shaved, nice bike, looks like a capable rider - no problem. Welcome aboard. Have fun. Take a pull if you can. Enjoy. Maybe even say thanks when they turn off or can't hang on any more. Yes, it matters a lot and I'm surprised that it may not matter to you.

what kind of rider they are, You can't tell that when they are drafting you. -
If they are drafting me and I am at 28mph or 25 or 20 and they are inches or feet behind me I will make it a point to check out what kind of rider they are. Let them take a pull, or introduce myself at a light, or ask where they are headed, or just plain be friendly and say hello and do a once over. If it is someone I passed now hanging on, I probably had the opportunity to see what kind of rider they are. Not that hard to tell. Not that hard to figure out most times. If they caught up to me, yippee some one strong to ride with or draft off of. So if they are drafting and for my own self preservation I will take a look, assess, and determine comfort level from there. Not that hard.

and maybe even where they are headed. Who cares where they are going unless they plan to buy you a beer after the ride.-
I do care where they are going if they are drafting me. Maybe it's just a courtesy that some maybe more experienced riders, who ride with other strong experienced riders share to say hello, nod the head, acknowledge the unspoken bond on the road, or even to just give kudos for the pulls or fast pace. I don't care much if they are planning on turning off or stopping in a half mile. I know I won't need to worry about them behind me cause they won't be for long.

I care a lot if they are going same direction for next twenty miles and we can trade off pulls and effort or they may just want to hang on and beat their coffee ride buddies behind us to the coffee shop so he can be sitting there drinking his cup when they roll up. That guy thanked me much for the 10 mile pull and apologized that he could not contribute and was barely hanging on most of the way. But he sure was happy and could not wait to see the looks on his ride group faces. So, I guess I care who they are, where they are going, and what kind of rider they are. Self preservation, courtesy, and maybe how I roll. Surprised one would question, or one would not have same human feeling towards another.

Things change averaging rides over 20mph or sustaining 25 on a slight incline into a headwind with guys trying to hang on. Different people, different world, different feelings. Took a long time to get there. Takes hard work to stay there. And maybe it includes the knowing that is shared by others who play in that arena?

Gotta say, posts here have been entertaining. We have a saying in the race car world, if they are a jerk off the track, they are probably a jerk on the track. We can maybe figure out who some of the jerks here would be if we had to ride with them.

caloso

I suppose I'd just slow to the point of trackstanding. But it's never gotten to that point. Probably because in real life it's rare that people would be so intentionally obtuse, unlike in online forums.

colnago62

Probably true. Always good to have a plan B.

UnfilteredDregs

Cropdusting is a rather potent method of handling this situation.

FLvector

Snide remarks??? I thought I was being polite and concise. What triggered my response (#31) - you implied that its the responsibility of the rider up front to know what's behind them, who it is, what kind of rider they are, and where they are heading. That's absurd! They latched onto the OP's training ride and now its his responsibility to gather this information so the stealth rider can suck his wheel?

Much of your long response is focused on after the rider behind has been acknowledged, not on the stealth rider quietly sucking your wheel. I have no problem sharing the ride if someone cares to hop on and share some pulls. It's always a more spirited ride, but have the common courtesy to announce yourself, rather than do something stupid that could hurt both of you.

BoSoxYacht

I'd just blow some snot-rockets

colnago62

Reacting to a situation on the bike with increased aggression, in my opinion, can create a dangerous situation. Also, you don't always know how the other rider will react. They might ride up on you and put you into the curb.

LucF

Rule #19.

lsberrios1 

What if it's a she instead of a he?

Machka 

I don't know ... I've never had a "she" wheelsuck off of me.

achoo

Do you really think someone who is by your own admission unpredictable needs to be left alone just inches off your rear wheel?

nuke_diver

I ride alone. I tend not to like being in groups so I will avoid them either by being faster or slower than they are. If there are people riding at my pace I might stay behind them because ultimately it is my ride and I want to be at the pace I am comfortable at. I will however tend to stay 2-3 bike lengths behind them. Hopefully they will either speed up or slow down and I go back to being alone.

I don't particularly care if someone sits on my wheel or not but they better not expect me to do the proper things in a paceline cause I don't know what they are. I did have one guy thank for me a good pull once and that was kind of nice of him (though he didn't ask at the beginning). I would have ridden that pace regardless. The only thing that kind of bothers me and it happens occasionally is when someone is seemingly slower than you.. So you pass them and the next thing you know they are hanging on to your wheel. If I sit up or slow down (or slow/stop for a light) they go past me at high speed only to slow down again almost immediately. I don't want to play racing games with you I want to do my ride

utahp8ntballer

Well, I guess I'll stop banging my head on this wall since you keep failing to get the point. And why do you keep insisting that I feel everyone has a right to "draft unannounced?" I haven't once said that but you've insisted I've implied that in a few of your posts.
I've simply stated that you are letting other people dictate how you feel. And by the immature way you've handled yourself here (name calling), then I have been able to dictate how you feel. You, my friend, could definitely use some good lessons in NGAF before you blow a gasket.

bt

I ride 30mph in zone 1

UnfilteredDregs

I pick entirely too much.

Machka 

Not only is wheelsucking creepy and dangerous, especially for the wheelsucker ...

But it is an invasion of personal space and an imposition of the other cyclist.


One cyclist is riding along minding her own business, thinking through her day, focussing on her ride. She is enjoying the solitude of cycling.

And then, all of a sudden, there's a wheelsucker. He doesn't do the polite and respectful thing and introduce himself or make any conversation at all. He just rides quietly behind, glued to her wheel. And now, all of a sudden, she is responsible for him. She is responsible to point out the potholes and debris, and to pay attention to whatever other hazards might affect the unwanted, uninvited wheelsucker. If she fails to point out the large pothole, this wheelsucker could fall in and hurt himself. He has rudely imposed himself on her.


Now I don't go out of my way to harm the wheelsucker. My first move is to sit up, slow down, and pull over as far as I can. Perhaps the wheelsucker only wants to pass ... and sometimes that happens. Perhaps the wheelsucker wants to ride up beside me and introduce himself ... and sometimes that happens. But if the wheelsucker also slows and remains on my wheel, that's really weird and creepy.

So there are a number of things I might do including ... not pointing out potholes and debris. Why should I? I wasn't doing that before this wheelsuckers showed up uninvited. I might also quickly turn at an intersection or driveway. Or I might stop suddenly ... and get my camera out to take a photo of the scenery.


And yes, there is a difference between being a couple bike lengths behind another rider ... and being within a foot of the other rider.

You might think about it this way. There you are going for a walk one evening ... you're all alone with your thoughts, and all of a sudden someone comes out of a laneway and starts walking about 1 foot behind you. Maybe men wouldn't be creeped out by that ... but most women would. I feel the same way about wheelsuckers.

Bob Dopolina 

^^^

/thread.

lsberrios1 

I guess I am the only one that enjoys having someone follow. I am very cautious, point out holes on the road, say hi, climb carefully and then drop 'em. After that we meet at the next stop light and they comment on my riding skills, I compliment their bike and sometimes we just keep riding... bam! New friend

Nick94804

no sir, you're not the only one; but you're rare.

BoSoxYacht

I don't care if someone follows me, but don't just latch on to my wheel without letting me know you are there.