Who cares how someone you'll never even meet views you? Just do what you feel is resonable according to the circumstances and if they don't like it that's his/her problem. Honestly a lot of really bad things happen because people are worried what others might think.

You, my friend, have a lot to learn!

How do you know you won't meet them? You're already sharing the same road. I also try not to reflect poorly on my fellow cyclists.

Besides, as the late great Jim Jackson said, "Ain't it nice to be nice when you kin be nice!"

I concentrate on my own vehicle, let them pass when they are ready , without a prompt from me.

I never once said to act like a jerk. The OP said he doesn't like to pass a cyclist waving him around because he can't see oncoming traffic, but feels compelled to do so because he doesn't wan't to be thought of as inconsiderate. I was telling him to use common sense and do what's safe, not worry what the guy on the bike thinks of him.

It doesn't mean "it's safe". Only the driver can make that determination.

It can only reasonably be an indication that the cyclist is OK with being passed: "I know you are there and I won't be surprized if you pass".

The wave isn't a command. It's an indication of conditions from a person who may be in a better position to see. Take that information for what it's worth, do your own analysis of the conditions, and act accordingly.

Ran a Secure Detention Facility for juvey's for near ten years...serious offenders from second degree murder, arson and sexual assaults down...A bit of courtesy and respect got you far more in return than hard assed when not needed.

Road courtesy costs nothing and may reap benefits you are never aware of...

There is a very practical reason here. My absolute, NUMBER 1, rule for surviving on a bicycle among mostly cars is DO NOT PISS OFF THE CAR DRIVERS.

A definitely secondary, less important, but not unimportant rule is to not piss off the cyclists.

I have never been comfortable with this situation from either end. But that is me, and you are you. Hopefully we are different :-)

dave

ps. The message that I take away from all this (speaking as the OP in this case) is that what really matters is to let the driver know that you know he is back there. Signaling when it is NOT SAFE seems to me to be a much more appropriate thing to do here.

Same here. My "signal" for "please don't try to pass in the lane" is moving left into the lane, and I'll signal "pass me" by moving right. If I'm already there, just pass.

On the other side of it, I've seen too many "ok to pass" waves that appeared to be at best random, to pay any attention at all to it.

On flat roads where the driver can see themselves, I don't wave through. The car driver can make their own decision.

On rolling/twisty roads where the cyclist has the advantage of seeing the road earlier than the driver, I will wave them through when it's safe to pass. This is as much for my own survival as for the car driver's expedience.

I will block, extending my left hand with palm open, only when necessary to signal oncoming traffic when I think the car driver can't see.

I rarely get off the road to let cars pass, and on top of that, most of the country roads here don't have much shoulder to speak off, so even if I want to, there aren't many places I could do it.

I personally don't signal to motorists, if it makes you feel safe, by all means do it.

In July 2012 I was hit by a half ton pickup doing 60 on a county road. His excuse was that he only wore one contact, it came out of place, and he didn't see me. Trouble was that he had 3 and a half clear flat miles of road behind us when he hit me. My lawyer pressed the issue when his insurance company balked, and we found out that he had sent 4 texts in the minutes leading up to it, and received one 8 seconds before he hit me (could tell exactly when he hit me from my Garmin data...should have seen their lawyer's face when we showed him the Garmin file next to the Verizon print out). He was in a company pickup with a huge limit policy so they never said another word about it. Anyway, I destroyed my shoulder, had 2 surgeries, a blood clot in my lung, and 4 months PT. Still can't put a belt on while I'm wearing my pants. Reason I went into that big spiel is because I assume every single car out there doesn't see me, period. If you guys want to ride out in the middle of the lane because you have a right to, knock yourselves out. I'd be dead and my 7 year-old would be fatherless if I had done that.

If I know someone is behind me and can't see to pass I get ready for one of 2 things to happen...he slows up and gets pissed about it (I don't care, maybe I'm more thick-skinned than most), or he passes me anyway and I get ready to avoid his head on crash by taking the ditch. You HAVE to worry about yourself first. Always.

If that driver gets so mad that he does something crazy like run you over he was nutso to begin with, and there was nothing you were going to do anyway.

As per my last post, I'd be in a box underground right now if I had done that.

Don't take it as me telling you what to do by any means; just something to think about. That only works if the person sees you.

if you are waiting for the car to pass, and he already had multiple opportunities to pass but didn´t, then I would signal. Otherwise not.

You had a bad experience, and of course I'm sorry it happened to you, but that conclusion is highly speculative. Perhaps had you been out in the lane, he'd have seen you when he glanced up; perhaps riding off to the edge makes cyclists harder to spot.

I don't see how that follows. Sorry about your accident btw.

If someone doesn't see me, it doesn't matter how "visible" I am - the only thing I can do is get out of the way. I'm sure you'll agree. It is easier to see us when we're in front of people than at the edge, but that's only part of the point. The way I ride, I assume everybody DOES see me (closer to reality since most drivers do), but expecting that anyone might NOT see me at any given time (as sometimes happens). There is a difference there.

We move into the lane when it is unsafe to pass, for the benefit of those who do see us. We (generally) don't move into the lane when passing in the lane is safe, just to make a point or because "we have the right" or anything like that. It's all about improving our chances.

(sorry about getting a bit off-topic, since this is about signalling not taking the lane or VC. I suppose it could be said, for those of us who DO ride VC in a reasonable manner, not always in the way willy-nilly for example, then waving them to pass is more pointless).

An accident like kv's will change your perspective... in theory, your strategy makes sense, but in this world of driving while texting, I think kv's defensive strategy is probably safer. My personal experience has told me also to expect EVERY driver to NOT see me. There are many a time I heard tires screeching behind me with some absent minded driver slamming on their brakes on a empty 4-lane road. In those moments, I am not sure there is anything you could do other than ensuring you ride on side of the road as much as possible so the driver can avoid you quicker.

In my experience, those folks won't pass with a wave either. I stopped trying to communicate with them.

Otherwise, I generally use lane positioning, but will signal when twisty conditions warrant it and it appears that it would really help the driver. That's rare though.

Thats precisely my point. The guy who hit me admitted that he never saw me at all. He was reading a text. If I had heard him coming and moved out into the lane he would have hit me full bore and I would have been scooped off the pavement into a bag. Since I was way on the right he hit me with the front quarter panel and the doorpost which hurt me really bad, but I'm still here.

Take your example and put it into my context and you'll see what I mean. You see it's unsafe to pass, and move out into the lane "assuming" (as you said) he sees you. But...he's texting (or 100 other different things except driving), and boom...you're toast. I fully admit that most of the time people see you, but I'm not taking that chance because there's no do-overs here.

You are correct that if someone doesn't see you it doesn't matter how visible you are. What matters is whether you're going to take the grill of the vehicle and have no chance of survival, or increase your odds of a sideswipe by getting of to the side. I just can't wrap my head around why someone would want to intentionally center themselves in front of a moving vehicle with zero indication that they know you're there.

Look, I know this is always a touchy issue and I'm going to respectfully bow out because I don't want anyone thinking I'm an a-hole or trying to tell them how to ride. I just think my experience was one that could maybe emphasize the fact that you always need to assume that people don't see you. I would 100% be dead right now if I had been a foot or two to the left. That's not debatable. Hope you never have to test it out and be safe :)

Thanks for the kind words even if we don't agree; we still advocate for the same team, right? :)

true. They come in hard.

Remember that the basic idea behind signals is to indicate your own situation - that you are changing course or speed, or are restricted in your ability to maneuver. Road signals are not for indicating what one expects others to do, and as indyfabz pointed out, they should not be used to direct others without authority or willingness to accept liability. Also, it's not particularly courteous to tell others what to do.

The best signal to give to those behind is always to hold ones line, and turning ones head a couple of times to look back is enough to indicate awareness, but there may be other things one can to do encourage drivers behind to pass. Of course if one wants to get closer to the curb, rather than creeping over, one should signal a shift right and do that. If not and the person behind seems unreasonably reluctant, one might very gradually creep toward the center of the lane first, then signal and shift over smartly (but not too dramatically), maybe even slowing down if appropriate. THEN the polite thing to do would be to smile and wave as they pass, so they know everything is OK.

You have it backwards. You don't hear them coming fast and then move out in front of them - that would be stupid. If passing is unsafe (the lane is too narrow) you're already in the lane. Right tire track actually. If they aren't slowing or moving over and continue to speed on up to you, then you consider moving right as an emergency maneuver.

My one big accident was due to a car tailgating me aggressively. I moved over close to the gutter hoping he'd pass but he didn't - then looking back to watch him I hit a road hazard. Waving him by would have been useless, but I wish I'd have stayed in the lane. Then nothing would have happened.

I got hit dead on, front grill by a guy passing on the shoulder. I landed on the top of the hood and windshield and walked away with no lasting or serious injury. It is very hard to say what would have occurred in a given situation. Do what you feel is safe for you and hope for the best.

Thanks to all for the very useful, broadly based, and well thought out discussion. This is very helpful to me in making my own best decision here.

dave