So if I go 11 speed on my Foil, that's the bike I like to take down to chase the racing idiots around, and who knows, if I get fit enough, maybe race on. I'd like to add an 11-28 cassette so I have a lighter bailout gear for Mt. Doom.

Here's the gearing on 11-25 and 11-28 cassettes from Shimano (Dura Ace 11 speed):

11-25: 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25


11-28: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28

What concerns me on the 11-28 is the lack of a 16 tooth cog, that strikes me as a gear you might use quite a bit on fast group rides. I have no idea of course, I'm not looking back at my cluster to see what cog I'm in when I'm trying to hold a wheel @ 20-30 mph.

Any feedback on this? That 28 would really help when I'm cooked coming up Mt. Doom, hell, I had a 26 on my Addict with Sram Red and I could feel the difference between the 39 x 25 on the one bike and the 29 x 26 on the other.

In the end if I get as fit as I hope to, this issue may fade, I'm awful fat and slow now, I'll be fitter and skinnier soon.

Your only recourse is to look for a 12-28. That will save the 16 tooth cog for you. 53/12 is a pretty substantial gear. If you have a decent cadence range capability, you ought not to miss the 11. If you have to have the 11, something has to be deleted, and the cassette makers have decided that is the 16.

What rings are you going to run? If standard, 12-25 is a good combination for anything except long mountain climbs. If compact, you are on your own. Make an Excel spreadsheet. My guess is 11-23 will cover most everything. Fitness makes all of these questions moot, actually. I know you understand that.

Smart response, I'll get a 12-28. I doubt I'll miss that 11.

I don't believe there is a 12-28 11spd available. Other than 12-25, Shimano and SRAM's 11-speed offerings all replicate their 10spd cassettes with the addition of an 11 cog (so 12-32 becomes 11-32, 12-28 becomes 11-28 and so on). Campy have a 12-29 that keeps the 16, and 11spd cassettes are apparently compatible across systems (you'd need a new rear hub to work with the Campy though).

Basicaly PCad will have to forego something if he wants the 16.

You get another rear wheel for racing and mount a different cassette on each.

How was this even a question?

11-28 is everything I need for recovery rides to hammerfests to 12% grades that last over 1.5 hours.

Oh that is paired with a 52-36 up front.

I would simply refuse to ride until shimano release their 18 speed cassette. This drip feeding us an extra cog every few years to force us to upgrade incrementally is BS.

If I were running 11 speed, I would want 12-25 or 26 in the rear. I would really like to have both the 16 and 18 cogs. But if all the 11 speed cassettes are former 12-X 10 speeds with an 11 tooth cog added, man that would suck. Maybe the 12-25 exists but I bet not in the SRAM Red which probably all start at 11

There is a 12-28 Dura Ace cassette, but it is pricey. Of course.

Wait for 12 speed.

there is a 12-28 11 speed Dura-Ace cassette, but I'd go with a 12-25 11 speed Ultegra cassette because you also gain an 18t cog that I find very useful.

That is my take also, but pcad's whole point was needing the 28 for climbing. I've got no hills, so the 25 would work fine for me. pcad seems to want a lower gear. If he didn't need the 28, he could just stay with the 11-25.

get the fully automatic shifting system. it's like a CVT

Can't you get a custom one? Either 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-28 or 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-28. I'd choose the first one.

With a 36 ring he'll be able to climb just fine.

Sure, the cat doesn't stand a chance. Too many ways to skin it. Takes a little work to see what combination suits the rider's needs and personality best, but for sure there is good solution out there.

I'll start with an 11-28 and take it from there. Everybody's different, and of course my fitness level will improve quite a bit in the next 90 days. I've been climbing that hill for years in a 39 x 25, and now I have a compact on the Addict with a granny gear of 34-25. I can muscle up that climb in the 39 x 25 now, it's just such a bear.

It will be much easier in December. So happy with D.A. mechanical 11 speed that I'm seriously thinking of selling the 10 speed Di2 and going 11 speed on the Foil. It wouldn't cost much, the Di2 stuff brings strong money on eBay, so maybe a few hundred bucks. I have 11 speed compatible Zipps for the Foil now, so why not? Wouldn't miss the Di2 much, that 11 speed 9000 shifting is friggin great. I'll keep the Di2 on the TT bike, that's where it really makes a big difference.

Won't make a cassette choice for a while anyway. I do like the idea of having a lighter bailout cog in the back. We'll see. I'll be so much fitter in a couple of months I'll probably just get an 11-25. I do wish they made an 11-26, that 26 I had on the Red cassette really made it a bit easier. I wonder how hard it is to add a 38 chainring to the bike??

38 tooth ring is an easy change once you find one. You know a SRAM cassete should be fully compatible. You could always get the 26 that way.

Can you put a 38 little ring on a 53/39 D.A. 9000 crank/derailleur set up? I have to research that, it might resolve this stuff.

The SRAM 11-28 might be what you're looking for. I use one on 5800. Be aware that there's a 3T jump from 19-22.

11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,22,25,28

I don't think so on those proprietary 4 arm Shimano cranks unless Shimano offers them.

I think you can put anything down to a 34 as long as you don't exceed the 16 tooth difference from the big ring. The new cranks work with all the road rings. There aren't two size BCDs for Dura Ace and Ultegra doubles anymore.

Currently in a similar situation. Have no use for either 11 or 12 cog and want to add 16 and 18 while having 28 at the back. Checked shimano and Sram and found no stock cassettes with a 28 (or 27 or 26) big cog that include both the 16 and the 18. Campy has 13-29 with 16 but missing the 18. And in 10 speed, the only thing i found was ultegra 12-23.
I imagine the SRAM/shimano engineering and marketing department meeting when deciding what 11 speeds to offer was held on a Friday, at 11 pm, in the conference room, without food or drinks: "... slap an 11 cog to whatever we had last year and let's just go home...hear hear...see you monday"

The 11 tooth is really unnecessary if you are as fat as you claim to be. For me, even on not too steep downhills, I get to a speed where I hardly need the 12. A 28 is a must if you have a steep hill to climb and wishful thinking that as you get fitter you won't need it is just...wishful thinking.

hmmmm...i can't remember if I have a 12-27 or a 12-28. Are they both just as common?