Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Training? Training for what?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway
View Poll Results: When you think training, what comes to mind?
Riding a stationary bike, replacement for road time
15
23.08%
Riding a stationary bike to focus on cardio or strength
15
23.08%
Strength/weight training
10
15.38%
Pace line practice
8
12.31%
Just more riding
43
66.15%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

Training? Training for what?

Old 02-09-15, 05:56 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
kbarch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1096 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Training? Training for what?

Do you just ride, or do you train for cycling?

If you ride a trainer, what are you training? Is it just a replacement for road time, or do you focus on particular aspects of fitness?

What about cycling-specific strength training, i.e., free weights and weight machines?

The big local club have "training rides" weekday mornings, typically 3 or 4 loops of the park (18-24 miles), which, aside from offering opportunities to just get out and ride in the morning, would be training for the cue sheet rides the club offers, some of which are leisurely, many of which are long, fast, or both, but all of which demand pace line discipline.

(edit) It's not on the poll, but another kind of training came to mind: bike handling drills - e.g., bunny hops, figure 8s, etc. I don't imagine they are the first thing that come to mind for anyone, but you might mention it if such drills are part of your training.

Last edited by kbarch; 02-09-15 at 06:10 AM.
kbarch is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 06:05 AM
  #2  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,518

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3215 Post(s)
Liked 1,755 Times in 1,059 Posts
You need a "None of the above" option.

Flawed poll.
chaadster is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 06:19 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
rangerdavid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boone, North Carolina
Posts: 5,094

Bikes: 2009 Cannondale CAAD9-6 2014 Trek Domaine 5.9

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
none of the above. what chad said
rangerdavid is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 06:21 AM
  #4  
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 599 Times in 331 Posts
When I think of "training" ... I think of a strictly structured program ... so strictly structured that it sucks every shred of joy and pleasure out of cycling and turns it into arduous, onerous work.
Machka is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 06:25 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
kbarch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1096 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by chaadster
You need a "None of the above" option.

Flawed poll.
Originally Posted by rangerdavid
none of the above. what chad said
Yeah, I know it's flawed, but it's too late to change it. So sue me.

The main intention was to give suggestions, to get the ball rolling, so to speak. You can still tell us what you consider training if it's something different - in fact, I was kind of hoping people would.
kbarch is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 06:39 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
kbarch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1096 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Machka
When I think of "training" ... I think of a strictly structured program ... so strictly structured that it sucks every shred of joy and pleasure out of cycling and turns it into arduous, onerous work.
In a way, I know what you mean about structured programs - you'll see them described in magazines or on the internet, and my eyes glaze over when I try to read them. But that's not to say I don't enjoy participating in them if someone else is leading them; and as much as it's work, it's fun to meet a challenge.
kbarch is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 07:07 AM
  #7  
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 599 Times in 331 Posts
Originally Posted by kbarch
In a way, I know what you mean about structured programs - you'll see them described in magazines or on the internet, and my eyes glaze over when I try to read them. But that's not to say I don't enjoy participating in them if someone else is leading them; and as much as it's work, it's fun to meet a challenge.
I raced for 3 years ... the first two years as a member of a club, the last year as an independent.

The club coach had us all "training" ... on a very structured program. Each day we had something specific to do. Thankfully, I forget all the details, but I do remember that Tuesdays were interval days. It didn't matter if it was pouring rain, howling with wind, snowing or whatever, Tuesdays were interval days. And another day of the week was a rest day ... again, it didn't matter if the day was the most gorgeous day we had in weeks, that day was a rest day and we were not, under any circumstances allowed out on our bicycles. Each day had a type of ride (or not if it was a rest day) assigned to it.

I followed that program until I became very, very tired of it all.

I just wanted to go out and ride for the fun of it sometimes ... but instead every day had a purpose.

Finally after two years of that, I went independent and made up my own more relaxed "training"program ... a year later I left the structure of racing entirely and got into Randonneuring.
Machka is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 07:38 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
intransit1217's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Kenosha , Wi
Posts: 1,231

Bikes: 2 Masi giramondo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
For me, it would be an unstructured "all of the above". In order to meet my goals, I need a little of everything. I just bought a trainer and I'm practicing LSMs while watching movies on my laptop. My focus goes back and forth between the movie and what I'm doing on the bike as sometimes I have to put the power down for a minute or two. Other days of the week I'm on my other bike on a trainer in someone elses basement working on technique. I need to add weight/strenght training and a bit of swimming to help round thing out. How I will accomplish this is an unknown.
intransit1217 is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 07:54 AM
  #9  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,518

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3215 Post(s)
Liked 1,755 Times in 1,059 Posts
Well, training is doing things specifically to build skills and competency on the bike.

The way I approach cycling, many of my rides are training rides, because I usually head out with a purpose, such as to improve my climbing, develop my ability to ride at the top end of my capacity, or work on transitioning back and forth from hard efforts to easy ones.

I ride with a club as well, and we work on similar skills, as well as group riding techniques. I've just joined another club specifically dedicated to racer development. Both of those are primarily training rides.

My training also takes place on both Cycleops' "turbo trainer" and stationary bike, where I train with power in order to develop and sustain power output. I occasionally ride with power on the road, but most often not, as that phase of training is focused on deploying what is built on the stationaries. If I had the right power meter, though, (specifically a crank or pedal meter rather than vintage Powertap hub), I'd certainly use it more often if not all the time, though I doubt I'd train power building specifically on the road.

Aside from that, I don't, at this time, do any off-the-bike training because of time constraints and believing that the best training for riding is riding, so I channel my little time into that, including non-training, or fun rides (solo, with friends, or organized).
chaadster is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 08:01 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Edonis13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,711

Bikes: S-Works SL3 Tarmac, Allez E5, Leader 735TT, others

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
is winter over yet?
Edonis13 is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 08:07 AM
  #11  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,518

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3215 Post(s)
Liked 1,755 Times in 1,059 Posts
Originally Posted by Edonis13
is winter over yet?
No, but it is the bottom of winter!

I've got my spring training camp dates...yippee!
chaadster is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 08:11 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
happyscientist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 255

Bikes: C'Dale Synapse, Surly Disc Trucker, Giant Trance, Orbea Avant

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I am training, but I hate super structured programs, so my workouts are targeted, but not obsessively so. I have a couple of goals where I am more concerned about finishing within a certain time than anything else. I have no delusions about winning. The first one is a century with 12,000' of climbing, so I have a climbing specific workout once a week. The second one is my first half iron man, so I have a weekly workout that is long stretches in the drops at a high cadence. Unfortunately, this time of year, they both have to be simulated on the trainer. These aren't contradictory, because at the end of the summer, my ultimate goal race is a HIM with 7000' of climbing, including an HC climb.

These are, of course, in addition to the running, swimming, and strength training that I do.
happyscientist is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 11:07 AM
  #13  
Old Fart
 
Stucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Bumpkinsville
Posts: 3,348

Bikes: '97 Klein Quantum '16 Gravity Knockout

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
When I think "training" I think of dogs.

I love dogs, but I am not one, so I just ride my bike. Hopefully, racking-up more time/miles here in the endless hills will provide benefits....but my primary objective is to enjoy my ride- and that is what I do. I don't race; I like the idea of improving my time/speed.....but that's not the ultimate goal. My goal is to profusely enjoy every minute of every ride. Cycling is fun; I don't want to make it into work or "suffering". (Although I do a little of both, thanks to all the hills!)
Stucky is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 11:36 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2953 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times in 1,417 Posts
Targeted intervals are training.
Recovery rides are training.
Group rides are training.
Simulated race scenarios are training.
Racing is training.
caloso is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 04:37 PM
  #15  
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 599 Times in 331 Posts
Originally Posted by Edonis13
is winter over yet?
Umm ... yes.

It's been over for 5 months.
Machka is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 04:41 PM
  #16  
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 599 Times in 331 Posts
Cross-training is when we do activities other than cycling outside such as ... running, swimming, skiing, skating, weight lifting, yoga and/or pilates, hiking, etc. etc.

Those activities build up different muscles than cycling, or the same muscles in different ways.
Machka is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 05:02 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
Black wallnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ellensburg,WA
Posts: 3,193

Bikes: Schwinn Broadway, Specialized Secteur Sport(crashed) Spec. Roubaix Sport, Spec. Crux

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Liked 176 Times in 88 Posts
Multiple choice so yes, plus some more.
__________________
Sir Mark, Knight of Sufferlandria
Black wallnut is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 06:31 PM
  #18  
Full Member
 
sgtdirt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Posts: 262

Bikes: KHS Grit 400, Redline Conquest SS, Redline MonoCog SS,2014 Felt TK3,

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 9 Posts
i'm with Chaadster, i have a purpose when i ride. my "training" is usually a mixture of what ever i encounter during my ride. if i hit a good hill, i may ride it a couple of times in a row. a flat straight...power and high cadence (e.g. a sprint). it keeps things fresh and helps with variety. during the times i can't ride, i hit up a spin class two times a week. mainly for the cardo aspect. for strength, i've been working out for many decades so gym time is a way of life.
sgtdirt is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 06:43 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341

Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 326 Times in 226 Posts
None of the above. I define training as riding with a a structured plan designed to force physiological adaptations like more speed and longer endurance. Generally that means hard days with intervals, a gradually increasing load up to some convenient maximum, and easy days/weeks/months allowing for recovery. That could be outdoors or inside.

You don't need to be too parochial about it (stop lights spaced 8, 12, and 10 minutes apart are as good as 3x10, an extra rest day here and there, a group ride instead of a tempo day) beyond the hard days being enough to force adaptations and rest periods leaving you fresh enough to do that.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 02-09-15 at 06:48 PM.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 06:45 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341

Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 326 Times in 226 Posts
Originally Posted by Edonis13
is winter over yet?
No. When I head out for a morning ride I need to wear a long sleeve jersey and knee warmers to contend with the chilly 50-55 degree weather. I've shifted my work hours around to ride later in the day when it's 60 and sunny.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 07:57 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
kbarch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1096 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by chaadster
Well, training is doing things specifically to build skills and competency on the bike.

The way I approach cycling, many of my rides are training rides, because I usually head out with a purpose, such as to improve my climbing, develop my ability to ride at the top end of my capacity, or work on transitioning back and forth from hard efforts to easy ones.

I ride with a club as well, and we work on similar skills, as well as group riding techniques. I've just joined another club specifically dedicated to racer development. Both of those are primarily training rides.

My training also takes place on both Cycleops' "turbo trainer" and stationary bike, where I train with power in order to develop and sustain power output. I occasionally ride with power on the road, but most often not, as that phase of training is focused on deploying what is built on the stationaries. If I had the right power meter, though, (specifically a crank or pedal meter rather than vintage Powertap hub), I'd certainly use it more often if not all the time, though I doubt I'd train power building specifically on the road.

Aside from that, I don't, at this time, do any off-the-bike training because of time constraints and believing that the best training for riding is riding, so I channel my little time into that, including non-training, or fun rides (solo, with friends, or organized).
Thanks, that's just the kind of response I was hoping to elicit. But one thing confuses me: what does it mean to ride or train "with power?" Do you mean that's what you're focusing on, or do you mean sometimes you just work as hard as you can?
kbarch is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 07:59 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
kbarch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1096 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Edonis13
is winter over yet?
It's not the end, and it's not the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning of winter.
Seriously, I don't expect it to be fully over until May - "don't cast your clout...," etc..
kbarch is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 08:04 PM
  #23  
Has a magic bike
 
Heathpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590

Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone

Mentioned: 699 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4456 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times in 157 Posts
Originally Posted by Machka
When I think of "training" ... I think of a strictly structured program ... so strictly structured that it sucks every shred of joy and pleasure out of cycling and turns it into arduous, onerous work.
Haha. I love training. Its my favorite part of cycling. My training is indeed very strictly structured. Yet it infuses my cycling with joy and pleasure. It is a magic thing to train hard and then go out on a ride and easily pull the boys through 20 miles of headwinds. Or pop up a 10% short hill like it is nothing. I love to hit my power targets so exactly that my coach accuses me of faking the data.

Heathpack is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 08:33 PM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341

Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 326 Times in 226 Posts
Originally Posted by kbarch
Thanks, that's just the kind of response I was hoping to elicit. But one thing confuses me: what does it mean to ride or train "with power?" Do you mean that's what you're focusing on, or do you mean sometimes you just work as hard as you can?
It means using power measurements for pacing (for example ride 20 minute intervals at 90-104% of your one hour maximum), calibrating those efforts (you can approximate your one hour power as 95% of what you manage over a 20 minute time trial or let your computer project critical power off representative longer and shorter efforts to exhaustion), stopping early because you can no longer work hard enough to force training adaptations, and tracking training stress.

Sprinting is done as hard as you can period; although for longer efforts people aren't good at perceiving where their limit is. Lactate accumulation past your one-hour power is proportional to intensity raised to the 4th power; which is to say going 10% too hard causes it to build up 40% faster.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 02-09-15 at 08:40 PM.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Old 02-09-15, 09:48 PM
  #25  
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 599 Times in 331 Posts
Originally Posted by Heathpack
Haha. I love training. Its my favorite part of cycling. My training is indeed very strictly structured. Yet it infuses my cycling with joy and pleasure. It is a magic thing to train hard and then go out on a ride and easily pull the boys through 20 miles of headwinds. Or pop up a 10% short hill like it is nothing. I love to hit my power targets so exactly that my coach accuses me of faking the data.

See ... the structured training program provided to the club was one-size fits all ... and never provided much in the way of improvement. Sure, I was a lot faster back then, but I was also a lot younger and in general rode more than I do now.

I rode those intervals week in and week out, through all sorts of weather, for 2 years ... and each week, my TT speed stayed pretty much the same.

That much misery ... no results ... no thanks.


And then I discovered that my strength is long distance cycling. When I was at my peak with that, I also discovered that I didn't really settle in and feel truly comfortable on the bicycle until I reached about the 100 km point. The first 100 km was usually rather restless and uncomfortable with various parts of my body telling me to go home ... but something always clicked about the 100 km point, and after that I was happy to continue cycling to 200 km, 300 km, 400 km, 600 km, 1000 km, and 1200 km.

Training for that involved riding lots ... and that I could do!

Last edited by Machka; 02-09-15 at 09:54 PM.
Machka is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.