Are New York's Bike Lanes Working?
12-23-10 | 10:05 PM
#1
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12-23-10 | 11:21 PM
#2
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those are valid points in that article, but the insurance rates going up thing was a time bomb just to anger drivers. the two way streets thing is kinda crazy, but does make sense.
here's my situation:
i'm happy the lanes are there and use them. the mere fact that the lanes exist was the reason my wife and i bought bikes last summer. I use the lanes religiously, don't salmon, and stop at red lights (but if the streets totally clear i'll cross it just like a pedestrian would - except when i see a cop car
).
honestly more than half the time there is another guy going the wrong way down the bike lane, but there is enough space so i let them through.
if there were no bike lanes I wouldn't of even thought about biking let alone buying a bike in the first place. now that I've biked all over NYC I'm totally confident enough to ride with regular traffic (which I do when I want to go fast).
i totally understand the reasoning for car drivers to get angry with less car lanes due to bike lanes, but thats the initiative of the city: to decrease car traffic meaning less cars. if it makes you angry to the point that you give up and commute to work then well the city has won. Yehey!
here's my situation:
i'm happy the lanes are there and use them. the mere fact that the lanes exist was the reason my wife and i bought bikes last summer. I use the lanes religiously, don't salmon, and stop at red lights (but if the streets totally clear i'll cross it just like a pedestrian would - except when i see a cop car
). honestly more than half the time there is another guy going the wrong way down the bike lane, but there is enough space so i let them through.
if there were no bike lanes I wouldn't of even thought about biking let alone buying a bike in the first place. now that I've biked all over NYC I'm totally confident enough to ride with regular traffic (which I do when I want to go fast).
i totally understand the reasoning for car drivers to get angry with less car lanes due to bike lanes, but thats the initiative of the city: to decrease car traffic meaning less cars. if it makes you angry to the point that you give up and commute to work then well the city has won. Yehey!
12-24-10 | 12:42 AM
#4
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From: Seattle, WA
Dear Mayor
I sincerely believe that you should take up a bike, it is healthier and you can have all the room you desire to travel in any direction and you do not even have to pay attention to the stop signs or stop lights. You would have a hell of a time until you ran over someones grandmother , mother, sister, brother ,father, young child. It happens all the time why stop the fun for the cyclist.
from a NY Physician
I sincerely believe that you should take up a bike, it is healthier and you can have all the room you desire to travel in any direction and you do not even have to pay attention to the stop signs or stop lights. You would have a hell of a time until you ran over someones grandmother , mother, sister, brother ,father, young child. It happens all the time why stop the fun for the cyclist.
from a NY Physician
So idiotic. The city has no money and the Mayor is busy adding bike lanes that worsen traffic, make the streets more dangerous and cater to a tiny minority of obnoxious (and smelly) New Yorkers.
This city's streets were designed to accommodate horses, then cars - never bicycles. If you are going to try and change that, then you must make fundamental changes to the city so you don't gum up the entire works for the few people who prefer pedal-power.
Step 1 - Eliminate all street deliveries by using cargo trains on existing subway lines. Underground stations could be added where goods would be delivered then taken to the surface close to the delivery location via hand-trucks. This lessens traffic congestion and adds parking spaces. Both help to facilitate more room for cars and bicycles.
Step 2 - Steep fees/tolls for non residents to bring their cars into the city. Only city dwellers should be allowed to drive here without paying a toll. There seem to be tolls everywhere else, why not NYC?
Step 3 - Accountability - If we're using taxpayer money to create these new bike lanes, the bicyclists must adhere to the rules. To enforce them, any bicyclist who uses their bike for commercial purposes should be forced to obtain (and pay for) a license and registration, complete with scan-able RFID tags so these marauders can be identified as they speed away from their latest kill. Also, the people who employ these bicyclists should have to carry insurance in the event that one of their employees smashes into an old lady while doing his job.
This city's streets were designed to accommodate horses, then cars - never bicycles. If you are going to try and change that, then you must make fundamental changes to the city so you don't gum up the entire works for the few people who prefer pedal-power.
Step 1 - Eliminate all street deliveries by using cargo trains on existing subway lines. Underground stations could be added where goods would be delivered then taken to the surface close to the delivery location via hand-trucks. This lessens traffic congestion and adds parking spaces. Both help to facilitate more room for cars and bicycles.
Step 2 - Steep fees/tolls for non residents to bring their cars into the city. Only city dwellers should be allowed to drive here without paying a toll. There seem to be tolls everywhere else, why not NYC?
Step 3 - Accountability - If we're using taxpayer money to create these new bike lanes, the bicyclists must adhere to the rules. To enforce them, any bicyclist who uses their bike for commercial purposes should be forced to obtain (and pay for) a license and registration, complete with scan-able RFID tags so these marauders can be identified as they speed away from their latest kill. Also, the people who employ these bicyclists should have to carry insurance in the event that one of their employees smashes into an old lady while doing his job.
12-24-10 | 08:15 AM
#5
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Interestingly enough, the NY Times also published this this week, and no one managed to repost it here until now either, I don't think.
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A narrative on bicycle driving.
A narrative on bicycle driving.
12-24-10 | 09:51 AM
#6
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From: Chicago, the leafy NW side
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The page for the Times' whole series of 'Room for Debate' columns on bike lanes is here.
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12-24-10 | 10:56 AM
#7
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From: Vancouver, BC
Although strict liability laws are in place in most of Western Europe, and I believe a form of it is in Japan, I don't think I've seen any results published on how well, poorly, or indifferently it's performed.
I think I remember a piece written that has said the law has resulted in fewer collisions and that there hasn't been a rash of claims against drivers unfairly filed, but I'm not sure.
It'd be a hard sell in auto-dominated countries, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good idea, or that it doesn't work.
I think I remember a piece written that has said the law has resulted in fewer collisions and that there hasn't been a rash of claims against drivers unfairly filed, but I'm not sure.
It'd be a hard sell in auto-dominated countries, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good idea, or that it doesn't work.
12-24-10 | 11:04 AM
#8
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The page for the Times' whole series of 'Room for Debate' columns on bike lanes is here.
Although strict liability laws are in place in most of Western Europe, and I believe a form of it is in Japan, I don't think I've seen any results published on how well, poorly, or indifferently it's performed.
I think I remember a piece written that has said the law has resulted in fewer collisions and that there hasn't been a rash of claims against drivers unfairly filed, but I'm not sure.
It'd be a hard sell in auto-dominated countries, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good idea, or that it doesn't work.
I think I remember a piece written that has said the law has resulted in fewer collisions and that there hasn't been a rash of claims against drivers unfairly filed, but I'm not sure.
It'd be a hard sell in auto-dominated countries, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good idea, or that it doesn't work.
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A narrative on bicycle driving.
A narrative on bicycle driving.
12-24-10 | 11:43 AM
#9
totally louche
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From: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
NYCDOT is convinced of their efficacy on several fronts.
NYCDOT IS trying to change transportation modality in the Big Apple. Its no longer a status quo, business as usual, plan for cars at the expense of public safety, air quality, and public space in New York City.
Reductions in collisions while facilitating greater bike ridership and safer pedestrians with grander public boulevards and promenades are indispensable components in the PLANYC 2030 agenda.
NYCDOT IS trying to change transportation modality in the Big Apple. Its no longer a status quo, business as usual, plan for cars at the expense of public safety, air quality, and public space in New York City.
Reductions in collisions while facilitating greater bike ridership and safer pedestrians with grander public boulevards and promenades are indispensable components in the PLANYC 2030 agenda.
Last edited by Bekologist; 12-24-10 at 12:03 PM.
12-24-10 | 04:52 PM
#10
I just moved to NYC and I personally think a large part of the problem is just doing bike facilities with little to no companion educational material. If I had to articulate the attitude here it would go something like: Darn bikes should not use space for cars and darn bike lanes taking away space from cars, double curses on cyclists. In a city where double parking is a chronic problem as well as too many cars that create unbelievable traffic tie ups, it's bikes that are the scourge of the roadway, even though for most destinations I can get there quicker by bike then by car.
12-24-10 | 06:14 PM
#12
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From: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
I just moved to NYC and I personally think a large part of the problem is just doing bike facilities with little to no companion educational material. If I had to articulate the attitude here it would go something like: Darn bikes should not use space for cars and darn bike lanes taking away space from cars, double curses on cyclists. In a city where double parking is a chronic problem as well as too many cars that create unbelievable traffic tie ups, it's bikes that are the scourge of the roadway, even though for most destinations I can get there quicker by bike then by car.
Portland has the same problem.
The DOT attitude seems to be that engineering is all you need and that everyone will intuitively know and understand how to interact on whatever infrastructure you provide.
After that, they seem to think that enforcement will solve all the remaining problems.
The HUGE missing piece, IMHO, is education; of cyclists certainly, but first and foremost of motorists.
12-27-10 | 10:01 AM
#13
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I just moved to NYC and I personally think a large part of the problem is just doing bike facilities with little to no companion educational material. If I had to articulate the attitude here it would go something like: Darn bikes should not use space for cars and darn bike lanes taking away space from cars, double curses on cyclists. In a city where double parking is a chronic problem as well as too many cars that create unbelievable traffic tie ups, it's bikes that are the scourge of the roadway, even though for most destinations I can get there quicker by bike then by car.
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A narrative on bicycle driving.
A narrative on bicycle driving.
12-27-10 | 10:10 AM
#14
totally louche
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From: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
...hence, the editorial beef largely void of any substance or statistics, except the last essay from Caroline Sampoanara of Transportation Alternatives.
Her figures and statistics quoted at the New York Times strongly suggest that yes the bike lanes are "working".
Her figures and statistics quoted at the New York Times strongly suggest that yes the bike lanes are "working".
Last edited by Bekologist; 12-27-10 at 10:14 AM.
12-27-10 | 10:12 AM
#15
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From: West Coast
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This is actually a more universal problem than you might think.
Portland has the same problem.
The DOT attitude seems to be that engineering is all you need and that everyone will intuitively know and understand how to interact on whatever infrastructure you provide.
After that, they seem to think that enforcement will solve all the remaining problems.
The HUGE missing piece, IMHO, is education; of cyclists certainly, but first and foremost of motorists.
Portland has the same problem.
The DOT attitude seems to be that engineering is all you need and that everyone will intuitively know and understand how to interact on whatever infrastructure you provide.
After that, they seem to think that enforcement will solve all the remaining problems.
The HUGE missing piece, IMHO, is education; of cyclists certainly, but first and foremost of motorists.
The reality is that far too many motorists consider the front seat on par with their living room couch, and that habit will get them home each evening... and that they are the best driver on the road at any speed.
It is that dichotomy between that reality of what motorists really do, compared to what engineers expect them to do, that is the real head slapper for anyone watching traffic.
12-27-10 | 11:03 AM
#16
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From: Vancouver, BC
The reality is that far too many motorists consider the front seat on par with their living room couch, and that habit will get them home each evening... and that they are the best driver on the road at any speed.
It is that dichotomy between that reality of what motorists really do, compared to what engineers expect them to do, that is the real head slapper for anyone watching traffic.
It is that dichotomy between that reality of what motorists really do, compared to what engineers expect them to do, that is the real head slapper for anyone watching traffic.
Engineers even place concrete barriers in between automotive lanes to prevent cars from driving into each other, so to think that they would do the same for others, isn't such a stretch
12-27-10 | 01:26 PM
#17
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I think what any DOT type engineer is thinking (and here I also consider John Forester and his insistence that everything for cyclists would be just fine... if...) is that motorists will obey the speed limits, follow the lines, markings and signs, and slow down and evaluate all that is before them.
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A narrative on bicycle driving.
A narrative on bicycle driving.
12-27-10 | 05:29 PM
#18
12-27-10 | 06:11 PM
#19
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From: Eugene, Oregon
I've seen that video played out in real life many times, including the tax subsidy zones. Interestingly enough, our local traffic engineers were willing to go outside the "standards" when the project was in the more affluent side of town.
12-27-10 | 07:08 PM
#20
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From: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
Portland is definitively not excepted from this pattern, it goes on all the time, and they call it 'smart growth'; it's why many cyclists demand 'protected' cycle tracks.
12-28-10 | 08:21 AM
#21
totally louche
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From: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
meh.
traffic engineers have made conditions amenable so that more cyclists are riding than ever before seen in living memory in New York City.
its rather unpersuasive to post a cute cartoon about traffic engineers that only focus on improving traffic flow at the expense of livability, as that is most emphatically not the case currently in New York City.
New York City is working towards its NYC2030 goals and are planning for more people less dependent on the private automobile for locomotion.
when will congestion tolling take hold in New York City?
new amsterdam, new amsterdam..... they called it new amsterdam.
Imagine if peter stuyvesant had bikes with him and fast forward 400 years. Canals, tulip scandals not real estate scandals, 30 percent of the public biking to and fro....
traffic engineers have made conditions amenable so that more cyclists are riding than ever before seen in living memory in New York City.
its rather unpersuasive to post a cute cartoon about traffic engineers that only focus on improving traffic flow at the expense of livability, as that is most emphatically not the case currently in New York City.
New York City is working towards its NYC2030 goals and are planning for more people less dependent on the private automobile for locomotion.
when will congestion tolling take hold in New York City?
new amsterdam, new amsterdam..... they called it new amsterdam.
Imagine if peter stuyvesant had bikes with him and fast forward 400 years. Canals, tulip scandals not real estate scandals, 30 percent of the public biking to and fro....
Last edited by Bekologist; 12-28-10 at 09:45 AM.
12-28-10 | 09:47 AM
#22
what a dumb video!
There's nothing there even dimly related to the road reconfigurations that have made conditions amenable so that more cyclists are riding than ever before seen in living memory in New York City.
oh, i see, you guys think traffic engineers don't understand traffic flow and dynamics and think improving thruput is the only directive traffic engineers operate under.
That is most emphatically NOT THE CASE currently in New York City.
...
There's nothing there even dimly related to the road reconfigurations that have made conditions amenable so that more cyclists are riding than ever before seen in living memory in New York City.
oh, i see, you guys think traffic engineers don't understand traffic flow and dynamics and think improving thruput is the only directive traffic engineers operate under.
That is most emphatically NOT THE CASE currently in New York City.
...
I am not unsympathetic in trying to accommodate the overly phobic cyclists but dropping the occasional facility where standard rules of the road don't apply without better notice is really not cool. If I live through this learning period I suppose I'll adapt to these things but so far I find NYC bike facilities inconstant, sometimes they follow the rules for pedestrains and sometimes the rules for vehicles. Does this inconsistency improve safety? I'm seeing it go both ways so I have no idea which side is winning.
So far my impression is the lacking educational component plays the most negative effect for cycling on NYC streets. They can build more bike lanes or they can take some away and it will not change the general atmosphere for cycling here. It all comes down to the 5 E's you cannot stress just one, end of story.
12-28-10 | 10:03 AM
#23
totally louche
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From: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
end of story?
no, i think new york will see more cyclists and safer cycling overall as transportation agencies continue to normalize bicycling as transportation there. the city certainly sees the value of education about bicycling and are working on the educational component from what i've read.
There has been greater compliance with road rules from my reading of the conditions there,what is expected from an expanding, 'critical mass' of roadway cyclists- in the heavily ridden cities of europe, cyclist compliance with traffic signals is quite high. as cyclists here achieve a commuter criticality, compliance with the rules of the road goes up is my observation.
of course, new york city is quite unique with its already high ridership, dense conditions and culture of scofflaw messenger style cycling for those brave enough for the concrete canyons of manhattan.
what did you expect moving to new york city? Yes, adapting to a diverse network of transportation facilities is par for the course for a bicyclist in any large north american city. are the paths adjacent to the parks and traffic thoroughfares throwing you off?
San Francisco planners are deliberate about enhancing market street in san francisco with a diverse, mixed bag of traffic facilities to better keep the motorists and cyclists in that mondrian state of uncertainty.
no, i think new york will see more cyclists and safer cycling overall as transportation agencies continue to normalize bicycling as transportation there. the city certainly sees the value of education about bicycling and are working on the educational component from what i've read.
There has been greater compliance with road rules from my reading of the conditions there,what is expected from an expanding, 'critical mass' of roadway cyclists- in the heavily ridden cities of europe, cyclist compliance with traffic signals is quite high. as cyclists here achieve a commuter criticality, compliance with the rules of the road goes up is my observation.
of course, new york city is quite unique with its already high ridership, dense conditions and culture of scofflaw messenger style cycling for those brave enough for the concrete canyons of manhattan.
what did you expect moving to new york city? Yes, adapting to a diverse network of transportation facilities is par for the course for a bicyclist in any large north american city. are the paths adjacent to the parks and traffic thoroughfares throwing you off?
San Francisco planners are deliberate about enhancing market street in san francisco with a diverse, mixed bag of traffic facilities to better keep the motorists and cyclists in that mondrian state of uncertainty.
Last edited by Bekologist; 12-28-10 at 10:25 AM.
12-28-10 | 11:21 AM
#24
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the only "final education" towards how to ride in NYC (in the brooklyn area just like you) was to plan my trip on https://www.nycbikemaps.com/ then just go out and ride and learn from experience.
sure coming in from Dekalb going towards the Manhattan Bridge is confusing after turning on Navy (where at the beginning there is a dedicated bike lane to a point where you have to cross over a 4 lane street to actually share the regular car lane with cars in left turn lane, only to go back unto a dedicated elevated bike lane with its own bike traffic lights, to the bridges.
there is no actual way to educate the riders on how to cross over a 4 lane street other than signs, but but more of just following other riders if they are riding - which can actually be helpful - the stuff on the NYC bike maps should be enough (make a signal to turn with your arm, look behind you and proceed with caution).
I kind of like the approach NYC is taking where they just put the lanes and maps (online or paper) and let it happen organically. its not like there is a public campaign on how to use the subway... you just look at the map and learn the transfers and nuances through actual experience.
sure coming in from Dekalb going towards the Manhattan Bridge is confusing after turning on Navy (where at the beginning there is a dedicated bike lane to a point where you have to cross over a 4 lane street to actually share the regular car lane with cars in left turn lane, only to go back unto a dedicated elevated bike lane with its own bike traffic lights, to the bridges.
there is no actual way to educate the riders on how to cross over a 4 lane street other than signs, but but more of just following other riders if they are riding - which can actually be helpful - the stuff on the NYC bike maps should be enough (make a signal to turn with your arm, look behind you and proceed with caution).
I kind of like the approach NYC is taking where they just put the lanes and maps (online or paper) and let it happen organically. its not like there is a public campaign on how to use the subway... you just look at the map and learn the transfers and nuances through actual experience.
I just moved to NYC and there is some really wacky stuff. For example: In trying to get to the Brooklyn Bridge there is a bike lane to the right of a double right turn lane. Supposedly there is a sign somewhere that tells cyclists that at this one intersection they are supposed to follow the ped signal and not the traffic signal for vehicles.
I am not unsympathetic in trying to accommodate the overly phobic cyclists but dropping the occasional facility where standard rules of the road don't apply without better notice is really not cool. If I live through this learning period I suppose I'll adapt to these things but so far I find NYC bike facilities inconstant, sometimes they follow the rules for pedestrains and sometimes the rules for vehicles. Does this inconsistency improve safety? I'm seeing it go both ways so I have no idea which side is winning.
So far my impression is the lacking educational component plays the most negative effect for cycling on NYC streets. They can build more bike lanes or they can take some away and it will not change the general atmosphere for cycling here. It all comes down to the 5 E's you cannot stress just one, end of story.
I am not unsympathetic in trying to accommodate the overly phobic cyclists but dropping the occasional facility where standard rules of the road don't apply without better notice is really not cool. If I live through this learning period I suppose I'll adapt to these things but so far I find NYC bike facilities inconstant, sometimes they follow the rules for pedestrains and sometimes the rules for vehicles. Does this inconsistency improve safety? I'm seeing it go both ways so I have no idea which side is winning.
So far my impression is the lacking educational component plays the most negative effect for cycling on NYC streets. They can build more bike lanes or they can take some away and it will not change the general atmosphere for cycling here. It all comes down to the 5 E's you cannot stress just one, end of story.
12-28-10 | 12:25 PM
#25
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Turns out that Stuyvesant wanted to bring bikes. But without his lycra and (clipless) shoes he decided it made more sense to drive.
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A narrative on bicycle driving.
A narrative on bicycle driving.