Dawes-man

I know it's possible to restore pedals - at least, they appear on eBay quite frequently, described as disassembled, re-chromed and presumably with new bearing surfaces. It's this last that I am interested in as I have just bought a pair of circa 1950s Brampton B8s with shot bearing races, cone and axle on one side. It's the first time I've ever seen a pair of these pedals in the metal and I like them very much, both for the design and the ample width.

It's possible to get cones and axles but I wonder how one goes about restoring the pedal body races - are the old ones ground or honed, or is it possible to replace them?

Here are pics of the problems:

[IMG]
R0012195 by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]
R0012194 by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]
R0012193 by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]
R0012191 by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

Another thing - is it possible to post photos directly from my computer to include here or must I use Flickr (or similar) as I've been doing?

cb400bill

You can post pics from your computer but it seems like the results are better/more consistent when you use a site like Flickr or Photobucket.

noglider 

I think those pedals are toast.

Dawes-man

Thank you cb400bill!

Dawes-man

Is that a guess or are you familiar with what can and can't be done with pedals?

cinco

Not something I would recommend for heavy usage, but when I came upon a severely out of round cone in an Atom 700 I chucked it in my lathe and made it round again with an oval diamond file. Not an ideal solution but the best of the ones available.

I suppose in your case it'd be possible to refinish the cones but I'm not sure what could be done about the cups other than custom making some races to press in there... and that's not much of an option. If you definitely want to ride them, I'd personally just throw 'em back together and ride 'till they blow up. They may not be the smoothest but I'd bet they'll last a good long while before they give up completely.

Dawes-man

Yes, that's an option but I have more idealist visions. Thanks for the input.

Michael Angelo 

I would find some cups that would match the radius and width. Then take everything to a machine shop. See if the old cup can be pressed out or cut out, and the new ones turned down and pressed in. It's a lot of trouble and expense.
But I think you would have new pedals again.

Mike

Capecodder

What it would cost you for a machine shop to do that work in not worth it in my opinion. You can buy a set of MKS Touring pedals for just around $20.00-$25.00 if you look, and they are every bit as good as what you have there (when they were new of course). Same style too by the way.

rootboy 

I have to agree with Noglider on these, but you no doubt are reluctant to accept such an assessment. Can't blame you. Those were nice pedals ...once.

reelfishin

If your dead set on saving those pedals, maybe there's enough room to fit some sealed bearings to them? It may take some machine work but I'm sure it's possible. The threaded shaft would only be used to take up any end play. The end caps would hide the mods.
Unless your able to do this yourself, I'm sure it's cheaper though to just find another set of pedals.

jstewse

^That would be sweet, and could work, assuming you have access to some kind of machining tools.
Otherwise you could try to smooth out the bearing surfaces a little bit, load up on some heavy grease and just ride 'em. I wouldn't rely on them too much though.

noglider 

I used flickr until recently. It's pretty nice. Then I switched to picasa. Fantastic. It has an app which runs on your computer, and you can sync folders with your web pages.

photobucket is super-obnoxious to me. Too much animation, and it's slow. Get lost, photobucket.

Dawes-man

I have 2 pairs of those pedals and they are very good, probably far better than the Bramptons, but not really right for the bike, a 1950 Hetchins MO:

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As it is now. The only change planned is to replace the present Criterium chain wheel for a single, without the mounting holes. by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

You tend to want to fit stuff that is period-correct, although some find pleasure in fitting such frames up with the most modern components. Me, I derive a lot of pleasure in keeping old stuff going.

Incidentally, the MKS Touring is a flat pedal, commonly referred to as a rat-trap or platform pedal, while the Brampton B8 is what is known as a quill pedal. Not the same style at all.

Dawes-man

Thanks for the input. I've been thinking about this some but I'm not sure I'd need to go quite that far, or even if they're worth going that far.

The cups, which seem to be welded to the pedal barrel ends, are quite thick. The other day I was reading something by Sheldon Brown about using valve grinding paste on the planetary gears of Sturmey Archer gear hubs to make them mesh more smoothly and I was wondering if a variation on the technique couldn't be used to grind the cups smooth, if there is enough metal there. Thinking more though, would the balls turning provide the grinding function? Probably not.

I'm not really 'dead-set on saving these pedals', I'm just loathe to see something beautiful binned if there is a way to keep it going. I must say, I find the ease with which some posters dismiss these pedals as a lost cause without even thinking of possible ways of conservation very strange indeed considering the forum we are in.

Dawes-man

I think an easier alternative, if there isn't enough metal for grinding (as in my reply to reelfishin above), is to cut and insert a small valve seat and have that ground. It all comes down to cost effectiveness.

As to relying on them, these pedals really are well-made. Comparing them to a pair of Philipps 501 I have lying around (as fitted to 70s upper-end Raleighs) they are far better made. I think the pitting is caused by rust rather than wear and tear and the left pedal is in lovely condition. If this problem can be dealt with and then looked after properly I reckon the pedals should last forever. Unlike these Philipps, which were made crappy.

nlerner

I'm wondering if you might find a replacement cone and then just go with the inevitable roughness from those pitted races. The cone looks far worse to me than the race, but I have no idea if Brampton used a proprietary size or not. Perhaps Sutherlands might offer info on the specs.

Neal

brockd15 

How about filling in the pits with solder (or something similar), then filing, sanding, smoothing as needed to get it as close to original as possible? Just a thought, not sure how well it work or how durable it would be if it did.

aixaix 

Dressing up the bearing surfaces, replacing the balls and using a good heavy grease will allow you to use the pedals, but they won't spin as smoothly or last nearly as long. One trick I've heard of but never tried is to assemble the pedals with valve grinding compound instead of grease, then spin the axle with a drill. This should hone the bearing surfaces. It will destroy the balls, but ball bearings are cheap. If I were you, I'd try it, using a medium grit first, cleaning it out, then using a fine grit.

Replacing the worn axles & cones is better than trying to save them, but may be expensive. Machining the bodies to install removable cups is going to cost a mint. Installing sealed bearings means re-sizing the housings and axles. I would be reluctant to do this. It amounts to re-engineering a highly stressed and critical component, which can fail in many interesting ways!

aixaix 

Won't work. Bearing surfaces are hardened for a reason. Solder is way too soft. To add steel you would have to build it up by welding. Any welding on the pedal housing will wreck the chrome.

southpawboston

I read somewhere that hardened steel applies only to the surface of the steel object. If you grind it away, it reveals unhardened steel beneath. I'm no metallurgist, it's just something I read on the interwebs (so therefore it's true, right?).

Dawes-man

Yes, that's occurred to me, too. And you're right, the cone is the worst part. The cone from an old Philipps/Raleigh pedal fit fine so I reckon the size is standard, and the roughness was diminished somewhat.

rhm

Yeah, I'm no metallurgist neither, but I'm sure you're right. Grinding down the existing races would remove the hardened steel and you're left with only the soft stuff. It's like, if you had a pothole in a paved road, the solution is to remove the pavement. You'll end up with a smooth dirt road.

I like the idea of finding some kind of bearing cups that would fit into the existing ones; you'd be adding maybe 1 mm on each side, so you'd probably need a longer spindle. You may have to have the spindle, cone, and cups custom made, but that would still be easier than trying to take apart the pedals and fix the existing cups.

Dawes-man

Solder would be too soft. I've thought about doing the same with JB Weld but imagine it would be too brittle. I wouldn't be surprised if someone had tried it, though. Anyone here?

Dawes-man

I've read the same. However, the cup surfaces on Lyotard (Oh no! Not THEM again!) and on the Raleigh pedals doesn't look hardened to me as the metal is the same colour as the non-bearing parts of the cups...