justruss

I'm looking for a little information about putting a Velo Orange french threaded headset on my '76 PR-10. I've searched here and elsewhere, but haven't found a couple crucial answers.

The reason for the new headset is that the old one is lightly indexed/false-brinelled, because of the indexed washer above the top cup, I can only tighten the current headset in finite jumps-- either tight enough to eliminate play and really feel the false brinelling, or loose enough that there's a tiny bit of play (though rideable) and not feel the false brinelling.

In any case, here are the questions:

1. Will the 41mm stack height be a problem?

2. Anyone use the VO french headset... have any opinions on it?

Thanks,

Russ

LeicaLad 

Well, our resident guru on stack height, Chas (aka: verktyg), hasn't spoken up yet, so I will give you a link to one of his detailed responses on stack height and different headsets.

https://www.gitaneusa.com/forum/viewt...heighth+height

That said, many people do like the VO headsets. Several of them are right at your stack height limit, tho. I think the Grand Cru headsets are 41mm. Not sure about the others. A quick email to VO would get you an answer. Otherwise, you can consider the several options that Chas outlines in the link above.

Good luck, and report back.

verktyg 

Russ,

I wrote this information on headsets about a year ago (2010):

https://www.gitaneusa.com/forum/viewt...heighth+height

Scroll to the bottom of the messages as there are several responses with different info & pictures.

Easy way to measure the stack height capacity for your frame:


How to measure the stack height of the headset:


I only recall maybe seeing 1 Stronglight Competition V4 headset set with a fretting/brinelling/indexing problem.

The V4 along with the lower quality Stronglight P3 headsets can be a bear to adjust properly because of the toothed top washers.

Indexing, pitting, what ever you want to call it, usually only occurs in the crown race and the lower cup. Because of the "V" bearing race design of the V4 headset, some of the causes of this problem are eliminated.

One suggestion, if there are actual indentations in the races, either remove the fork crown race or the lower head tube race and rotate it slightly so that the indentations are offset. Also, use a full load of 25 each 5/32" loose ball bearings. Use only grade 25 chrome steel ball bearings not carbon steel balls. You can get them cheap on eBay.

Back to the VeloORANGE headset, these have a stack height of 41mm while the Stronglight V4 headsets are ~38-39mm high.

This can be a problem if you are using center pull brakes and have a cable hanger installed under the top lock nut.

The 2-3mm of thread you will loose at the top of the steerer with the VeloORANGE headset wont leave sufficient "purchase" for the top lock nut (ideally you should have 7 turns of thread for the strongest connection).

The VO headsets look like they are very well made but the marketing aspect for the VeloORANGE headsets weren't very well thought out.

There were only a small percentage of metric threaded bikes that came with 40-43mm stack height headsets (Campagnolo, Stronglight S5, Zeus, Edco and so on). Most of those headsets were very good quality and replacements are still available on eBay.

On the other hand, Stronglight P3 headsets with a ~33mm stack height (and similar sized metric headsets) were far more common and need replacement more frequently. They're getting harder to find!

Another issue is the crown race inside diameter. Many if not most French bikes came with 27.0mm ID crown races. Campagnolo and VeloORANGE headsets have 26.4mm ID crown races which means that the crown will need to be refaced by someone with the proper crown facing tool (WHO KNOWS HOW TO USE IT).

Also, while the headset is apart, it's a good idea to have the top and bottom of the head tube refaced. Again by someone with the proper tool who knows how to use it.

I just did that operation on a 1974 Gitane Super Corsa this afternoon. It makes a world of difference in how smooth the fork rotates when the surfaces are aligned.

Chas. verktyg

justruss

Chas,

More thanks than I can provide. I'll do some digesting and, if I have time this afternoon, some measuring and photo-taking.

Looking through the photos-- and stronglight info-- I can't figure out what the headset that is on there is. I'll post a photo here. Perhaps what's on there isn't original.

Russ

justruss

Chas,

Any idea what the headset in the photos below is? I can't seem to figure it out.

Thanks,

Russ

verktyg 

Russ,

Here's a link to a PR-10 that the owner has installed a VeloORANGE headset on (scroll down)

https://tinyurl.com/3bp3sps

Notice in the closeup shot there's no lock washer above (or below) the brake cable hanger.

With aluminum alloy headsets, I like to have the maximum amount of threads engaged.

Of course lots of people will prove me wrong but on the other hand, they may have to deal with a headset that constantly needs to be retightened.

Your PR-10 has a standard Peugeot Headset. The flat black washer under the cable hanger that has lots of holes in it. They mate up with a pin in the adjustable cup to keep it from rotating. They can be a bear to adjust too. It's been a while since I worked on one.

The stack height is listed as 38.5mm. See all of the other caveats above.

If I had my druthers, I'd try to pick up a Stronglight V4 on eBay. They go for ~$50.00.

Chas. verktyg

justruss

Chas,

Just posted two photos above. I was going to PM you... but I don't have enough posts yet!

Yes, my headset has the flat washer with the holes-- accepted by the pin on the adjustable cup below-- which makes it pretty frustrating trying to get it tightened just right since the stops are finite.

Russ

verktyg 

I re-read the message in the link that I just sent you. The owner used a different fork and different top lock nut to get the VeloORANGE headset to work.

Those old standard headsets used on entry level to mid range bikes were made of case hardened steel not through hardened steel that was used on better models. They had a tendency to index easily for lots of reasons.

Rotating the bottom cup or crown race will keep you on the road until you find something that works. Also, don't reuse old ball bearings. Get some new ones, they're cheap on eBay.

If the indexing is bad, you can get a cheap Tange Passage or Levin CDS model headset with either a 26.4mm or 27.0mm crown race ($12.00-$20.00+). Just use the bottom race and crown race.

Chas. verktyg