Schwalbe problems - region related?
11-12-11 | 09:44 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Mostly harmless ™
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,462
Likes: 243
From: Novi Sad
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
Schwalbe problems - region related?
Bought Schwalbe Marathon Green Guard 622-37 from official Serbian dealer and rode them for 2 months, some 600 kilometers. The rear tyre has cracked along it's thread and shows the green inner protective layer. You could peel the threads off by hand now.
Looking into local, Serbian bike forums, I found out that many people in Serbia have had similar problems with Schwalbes. This seems to be Serbian (distributor) specific problem.
Is there a difference in production quality, or can wrong (or too long) storage ruin tires so that they fail this soon?
Use my bike as the main means of transport and was hoping not to worry about tires for a year at least after purchasing rather expensive Marathons. Distributor is some 100 km away from my town, so even sending tires back and getting new ones is a significant expense. Very angry and disappointed.
P.S. Always inflated to recommended 5.5 bar pressure. Total weight of bike, luggage and myself is under 110 kgs, so one tyre couldn't have been overloaded. 90% road riding.
I was just planing to order studded winter tires as well, but now I'm not trusting and might just go for DIY on some older and a lot cheaper tyres.
Looking into local, Serbian bike forums, I found out that many people in Serbia have had similar problems with Schwalbes. This seems to be Serbian (distributor) specific problem.
Is there a difference in production quality, or can wrong (or too long) storage ruin tires so that they fail this soon?
Use my bike as the main means of transport and was hoping not to worry about tires for a year at least after purchasing rather expensive Marathons. Distributor is some 100 km away from my town, so even sending tires back and getting new ones is a significant expense. Very angry and disappointed.
P.S. Always inflated to recommended 5.5 bar pressure. Total weight of bike, luggage and myself is under 110 kgs, so one tyre couldn't have been overloaded. 90% road riding.
I was just planing to order studded winter tires as well, but now I'm not trusting and might just go for DIY on some older and a lot cheaper tyres.
Last edited by Bike Gremlin; 11-12-11 at 09:48 AM.
11-12-11 | 09:52 AM
#2
nashcommguy
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 0
From: nashville, tn
Bikes: Commuters: Fuji Delray road, Fuji Discovery mtb...Touring: Softride Traveler...Road: C-dale SR300
E-mail the company and explain to them just what you've said here. There's no telling where the fault lies, but as you've been in contact w/several people in your region who've experienced similar problems it could be a systemic or manufacturing glitch. Either way I'm fairly certain Schwalbe would want to know, so they could replace your tires and address the CC issues. They've got a reputation to uphold.
Btw, I use the Marathon Plus on my commuter bikes and have had great success w/them.
Btw, I use the Marathon Plus on my commuter bikes and have had great success w/them.
11-12-11 | 11:11 PM
#5
Velocommuter Commando
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,683
Likes: 38
From: Houston, Texas
Bikes: '88 Specialized Sirrus, '89 Alpine Monitor Pass, two '70 Raligh Twenties, '07 Schwinn Town & Country Trike, '07 Specialized Sirrus Hybrid
11-13-11 | 10:21 AM
#7
Banned
Joined: Nov 2004
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If I recall correctly Schawble now puts a bar code in their tires to help authentic them as they've had problems with fakes or second quality tires on the market. I've bought mine here for years, and haven't had a problem. Good prices and cheap shipping throughout Europe. https://www.bike-components.de/
I found what Schawble has to say about it
https://www.schwalbe.de/gbl/en/presse...e&tn_subPoint=
I found what Schawble has to say about it
Guarantee only for barcoded merchandise
Since the summer of 2009 individual EAN codes have been vulcanized into all Schwalbe Folding, Downhill and Marathon tires. The first tires with damaged codes have now emerged on the market. Dr. Vereina Hoene, Schwalbe´s lawyer specializing in intellectual and industrial property rights in the Commercial Law Practice Heuking Kühn Lüer Wojtek in Cologne, answers questions about the consequences this could have for the bicycle trade.
Why are Schwalbe tires barcoded?
The barcoding system improves and facilitates quality assurance. In the case of defective lots, recalls of coded tires can be more easily initiated. When handling claims made under warranty and/or guarantee, it is much easier to establish causes in the reduction of quality.
What happens if a barcode is removed?
The barcode is an integral part of the product. Removing it calls for considerable wilful mechanical force and the tire not only looks worn, but is also damaged as a result! The carcass sustains damage and the surface becomes porous which presents a safety hazard. Tires damaged in this way can cause serious accidents, for which the seller of the tire to the consumer is liable. It is also conceivable that this could be deemed a criminal offence on the grounds of attempted grievous bodily harm. After all, the party responsible for the removal of the barcode knowingly accepts the safety risk.
Furthermore, removing the barcode constitutes a trademark infringement which is likewise an offence liable to punishment. Schwalbe has the right to expect its merchandise will be sold in its original state.
It goes without saying that Schwalbe will not assume any guarantee or warranty for tires where the barcode has been removed.
How can bicycle dealers protect themselves against such claims?
By selling only originally packed merchandise with an intact barcode and a full set of operating and fitting instructions.
Can dealers return tires showing a damaged code?
Yes, thats covered by the warranty. The dealer is entitled to return the merchandise to the supplier from whom it was purchased. Anyone selling merchandise that has been tampered with forgoes the right to claim under the warranty and is then personally liable. A dealer would therefore be wise not to take this risk.
What are the consequences of removing the code?
We file an official complaint. After all, it is in the publics interest for the safety of bicycle tires to be guaranteed. Moreover, Schwalbe can prohibit a third party from selling the tires if the condition of the merchandise has been impaired in this way subsequent to having been placed on the market.
Law specialist, Dr. Verena Hoene: "Those selling originally packed merchandise have nothing to worry about."
Since the summer of 2009 individual EAN codes have been vulcanized into all Schwalbe Folding, Downhill and Marathon tires. The first tires with damaged codes have now emerged on the market. Dr. Vereina Hoene, Schwalbe´s lawyer specializing in intellectual and industrial property rights in the Commercial Law Practice Heuking Kühn Lüer Wojtek in Cologne, answers questions about the consequences this could have for the bicycle trade.
Why are Schwalbe tires barcoded?
The barcoding system improves and facilitates quality assurance. In the case of defective lots, recalls of coded tires can be more easily initiated. When handling claims made under warranty and/or guarantee, it is much easier to establish causes in the reduction of quality.
What happens if a barcode is removed?
The barcode is an integral part of the product. Removing it calls for considerable wilful mechanical force and the tire not only looks worn, but is also damaged as a result! The carcass sustains damage and the surface becomes porous which presents a safety hazard. Tires damaged in this way can cause serious accidents, for which the seller of the tire to the consumer is liable. It is also conceivable that this could be deemed a criminal offence on the grounds of attempted grievous bodily harm. After all, the party responsible for the removal of the barcode knowingly accepts the safety risk.
Furthermore, removing the barcode constitutes a trademark infringement which is likewise an offence liable to punishment. Schwalbe has the right to expect its merchandise will be sold in its original state.
It goes without saying that Schwalbe will not assume any guarantee or warranty for tires where the barcode has been removed.
How can bicycle dealers protect themselves against such claims?
By selling only originally packed merchandise with an intact barcode and a full set of operating and fitting instructions.
Can dealers return tires showing a damaged code?
Yes, thats covered by the warranty. The dealer is entitled to return the merchandise to the supplier from whom it was purchased. Anyone selling merchandise that has been tampered with forgoes the right to claim under the warranty and is then personally liable. A dealer would therefore be wise not to take this risk.
What are the consequences of removing the code?
We file an official complaint. After all, it is in the publics interest for the safety of bicycle tires to be guaranteed. Moreover, Schwalbe can prohibit a third party from selling the tires if the condition of the merchandise has been impaired in this way subsequent to having been placed on the market.
Law specialist, Dr. Verena Hoene: "Those selling originally packed merchandise have nothing to worry about."
Last edited by Cyclist0383; 11-14-11 at 02:00 AM. Reason: Added link. D'oh!
11-21-11 | 05:28 AM
#9
Thread Starter
Mostly harmless ™
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Novi Sad
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
Local dealer sent a new tire for no postal charge for me. That was very nice of them. Will give it a try and see what happens. So far it seems OK.
11-21-11 | 05:52 AM
#10
aka Timi
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,601
Likes: 321
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Bikes: Bianchi Lupo & Bianchi Volpe Disc: touring. Bianchi Volpe: commuting
Have you considered buying online from the UK?
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=69133
The postal cost to Serbia would be £10 (1209 dinar)
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=69133
The postal cost to Serbia would be £10 (1209 dinar)
12-01-11 | 02:07 AM
#11
Thread Starter
Mostly harmless ™
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Novi Sad
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
The dealer sent a new (rear, in my case) tire for no charge. Very nice of them. So far it seems OK.
The front tire has been OK since the initial purchase - successfully stopping 3 deadly thorns so the flatproof statement is definitely true.
I'll see how the new rear tire holds in the next few months. The first 100 kms were just fine - no sign of wear.
The front tire has been OK since the initial purchase - successfully stopping 3 deadly thorns so the flatproof statement is definitely true.
I'll see how the new rear tire holds in the next few months. The first 100 kms were just fine - no sign of wear.
12-01-11 | 02:10 AM
#12
Banned
Joined: Nov 2004
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Likes: 1
The dealer sent a new (rear, in my case) tire for no charge. Very nice of them. So far it seems OK.
The front tire has been OK since the initial purchase - successfully stopping 3 deadly thorns so the flatproof statement is definitely true.
I'll see how the new rear tire holds in the next few months. The first 100 kms were just fine - no sign of wear.
The front tire has been OK since the initial purchase - successfully stopping 3 deadly thorns so the flatproof statement is definitely true.
I'll see how the new rear tire holds in the next few months. The first 100 kms were just fine - no sign of wear.
12-01-11 | 05:30 AM
#13
Thread Starter
Mostly harmless ™
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From: Novi Sad
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
12-01-11 | 06:06 AM
#14
Banned
Joined: Nov 2004
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Likes: 1
If you don't have one on your tires you could have a counterfeit, second quality (sold out the factory back door), or old stock. Either of these could account for the failures.
Last edited by Cyclist0383; 12-01-11 at 07:06 AM. Reason: Typo
12-01-11 | 06:32 AM
#15
Thread Starter
Mostly harmless ™
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From: Novi Sad
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
Yup, my guess is old stock.
01-04-12 | 12:44 PM
#16
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: PNW - Victoria, BC
Bikes: 2002 Litespeed Vortex - 2007 Trek Madone 5.9 - 2004 Redline Conquest Pro - Specialized S-Works Festina Team Model - 93 Cannondale M 800 Beast of the East
I missed this thread..... my bad. We haven't heard of any counterfit tire issues, at least in North America. Where the barcode really comes into play is, Schwalbe sells tires through it's global distribution network, but they also sell tires directly to bike manufacturers (OEM product). In the past we have had problems with OEMs buying more tires than they need and then dumping them on the market as an additional revenue/income stream, kind of a hedge on the bicycle industry. Becuase they get such favorable pricing, they can make a pretty good margin even selling to discounters. The barcode was implemented so that we could tell that a) the tire is in fact a Schwalbe, and b) that a tire in the aftermarket was intended for the aftermarket. The barcode tells Schwalbe if the tire was built for OEM or aftermarket and more specifically who they sold the tire to.
The barcode is on the inside of the tire, so it's only visible if the tire is off the rim. As for this specific circumstance in Siberia, if the tire did in fact have a barcode (legitimate Schwalbe merchandise) and the problem was not an anomoly, it's entirely possible that Schwalbe had a problem with a batch of tires that were produced for the distributor that services this region.
The tires couldn't have been exceptionally old, the Green Guard version has only been around for a couple of years. The other possibility is that they weren't stored properly. If the stories are true about the harsh conditions that can exist in Siberia, tires could potentially deteriorate very rapidly if exposed to the elements for an extended period.
The barcode is on the inside of the tire, so it's only visible if the tire is off the rim. As for this specific circumstance in Siberia, if the tire did in fact have a barcode (legitimate Schwalbe merchandise) and the problem was not an anomoly, it's entirely possible that Schwalbe had a problem with a batch of tires that were produced for the distributor that services this region.
The tires couldn't have been exceptionally old, the Green Guard version has only been around for a couple of years. The other possibility is that they weren't stored properly. If the stories are true about the harsh conditions that can exist in Siberia, tires could potentially deteriorate very rapidly if exposed to the elements for an extended period.
01-04-12 | 12:49 PM
#17
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: PNW - Victoria, BC
Bikes: 2002 Litespeed Vortex - 2007 Trek Madone 5.9 - 2004 Redline Conquest Pro - Specialized S-Works Festina Team Model - 93 Cannondale M 800 Beast of the East
Sorry to have "bumped" this thread, but I at least thought that I could shed a little light on the possibilities.
gb
gb
01-04-12 | 04:27 PM
#18
Thread Starter
Mostly harmless ™
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From: Novi Sad
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
01-05-12 | 01:18 PM
#19
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: PNW - Victoria, BC
Bikes: 2002 Litespeed Vortex - 2007 Trek Madone 5.9 - 2004 Redline Conquest Pro - Specialized S-Works Festina Team Model - 93 Cannondale M 800 Beast of the East
Aha.... now I just need to learn to read.
Serbia I assume can be cold and potentially harsh during the winter months, but I do know that Serbia and Siberia are not the same place.
I have to say that my initial impression was "wow, someone actually bike commutes in Siberia!"
Serbia I assume can be cold and potentially harsh during the winter months, but I do know that Serbia and Siberia are not the same place.
I have to say that my initial impression was "wow, someone actually bike commutes in Siberia!"
01-06-12 | 12:06 AM
#20
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Mostly harmless ™
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From: Novi Sad
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
Yup. Continental climate. So we do have extra cold and extra hot conditions, both bad enough to ruin a tyre not stored properly. But nothing like Siberia. Some scenery from some guy's camera:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5WneFV7b-I
08-15-17 | 04:51 PM
#21
Cycologist SoC*l
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
Bikes: Specialized Rubioux
Schwalbe One
I purchased some Schwalbe ONE tires from Pro Bike kit a few months ago. I always have extra tires so I did not put these on until last Thursday. Saturday ride my power meter was high, average speed not so much. Same thing today. So, I was washing my bike and noticed the Schwalbe's I've been riding for the past year all had Schwalbe 1 ONE on the sidewall. These have Schwalbe P ONE on the sidewall. Googled Schwalbe and NONE of the ever had a "P" on the sidewall. Is Probike Kit selling counterfeits. They refused to help as I bought these in May and they sat until last week,
08-16-17 | 01:46 AM
#22
On yer bike
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 520
Likes: 5
From: Shelbyville
Keep hounding them. I've had terrible experiences with their customer service but I have managed to wear them down by being persistent. I've purchased from them twice, both times had issues with my order, and both times their first response was the equivalent of "too bad".
Also, contact Schwalbe and ask about your issue. If they are willing to back you up, then either they will probably take care of you directly or at least you can use that to pressure PBK.
Also, contact Schwalbe and ask about your issue. If they are willing to back you up, then either they will probably take care of you directly or at least you can use that to pressure PBK.
Last edited by Nightdiver; 08-16-17 at 01:55 AM.
08-16-17 | 02:33 AM
#24
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,687
Likes: 297
Bought Schwalbe Marathon Green Guard 622-37 from official Serbian dealer and rode them for 2 months, some 600 kilometers. The rear tyre has cracked along it's thread and shows the green inner protective layer. You could peel the threads off by hand now.
Looking into local, Serbian bike forums, I found out that many people in Serbia have had similar problems with Schwalbes. This seems to be Serbian (distributor) specific problem.
Is there a difference in production quality, or can wrong (or too long) storage ruin tires so that they fail this soon?
Use my bike as the main means of transport and was hoping not to worry about tires for a year at least after purchasing rather expensive Marathons. Distributor is some 100 km away from my town, so even sending tires back and getting new ones is a significant expense. Very angry and disappointed.
P.S. Always inflated to recommended 5.5 bar pressure. Total weight of bike, luggage and myself is under 110 kgs, so one tyre couldn't have been overloaded. 90% road riding.
I was just planing to order studded winter tires as well, but now I'm not trusting and might just go for DIY on some older and a lot cheaper tyres.
Looking into local, Serbian bike forums, I found out that many people in Serbia have had similar problems with Schwalbes. This seems to be Serbian (distributor) specific problem.
Is there a difference in production quality, or can wrong (or too long) storage ruin tires so that they fail this soon?
Use my bike as the main means of transport and was hoping not to worry about tires for a year at least after purchasing rather expensive Marathons. Distributor is some 100 km away from my town, so even sending tires back and getting new ones is a significant expense. Very angry and disappointed.
P.S. Always inflated to recommended 5.5 bar pressure. Total weight of bike, luggage and myself is under 110 kgs, so one tyre couldn't have been overloaded. 90% road riding.
I was just planing to order studded winter tires as well, but now I'm not trusting and might just go for DIY on some older and a lot cheaper tyres.
Suomityres/Nokian tend to last far longer.
DIY studded tires can be kinda-sorta OK for all-ice/hardpack riding, but are really difficult to get to last for urban/mixed surface riding.
I've tried it, and am not planning to do it again.
Don't think storage as such is to blame.
Unless storage conditions have been absolutely horrible.
There's a regularly returning story about some pro racer/team having several seasons worth of (tubular) tires stored in a cellar somewhere.
08-16-17 | 04:48 AM
#25
Me duelen las nalgas
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,519
Likes: 2,832
From: Texas
Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel
I purchased some Schwalbe ONE tires from Pro Bike kit a few months ago. I always have extra tires so I did not put these on until last Thursday. Saturday ride my power meter was high, average speed not so much. Same thing today. So, I was washing my bike and noticed the Schwalbe's I've been riding for the past year all had Schwalbe 1 ONE on the sidewall. These have Schwalbe P ONE on the sidewall. Googled Schwalbe and NONE of the ever had a "P" on the sidewall. Is Probike Kit selling counterfeits. They refused to help as I bought these in May and they sat until last week,
The set of Schwalbe One V-Guard folders I got from Jenson USA last month are labeled exactly like all the common photos I've Googled. The numeral 1 has a multi-line or "echo" effect, which, if marred or scuffed in handling, could resemble the capital letter "P". While such scuffing may seem unlikely the tires I received were shipped without any packaging, just a rubber band and placed in a bag, along with other items I'd purchased from Jenson in the same carton.
No surprise, that's exactly how Jenson advertised the tires -- from a bulk load, no packaging material. I just assumed the tires were leftover unsold new stock from 2014 or so, possibly intended for bulk distribution outside the usual retail market (such as racing teams). I thought they might be seconds or blems but couldn't find any defects. So far, so good, nice tires for $15 each.
There are also SCHWALBE 1 PRO ONE and BIG ONE (allcaps), SCHWALBE 1 G-ONE, SCHWALBE 1 X-ONE and SCHWALBE 1 S-ONE, possibly others. So a "P-ONE" is possible, although only Schwalbe would know for certain.