Kanegon

My second Centurion and first ever AL roadie.



Before that, I had been riding and maintaining the same Puch hi-ten 10-speed flat bar for 30 years. This excludes the hard-tail MTBs we've owned -- one of the reasons I was happy to rediscover skinny wheels and frames living in Brooklyn, but that's another story.

Got this off the local CL. The message only said it was a Centurion. A cursory check of yellow black centurions yielded some hits on an obscure aluminum model (probably posts and photos Robbie had posted). Everything about this bike, I've learned from a 4 year-old thread here in BF.

First things first: the aluminum frame.

It's softer than you'd expect. I've ridden AL frames on MTB and some of them are butt-busters. Anyway, with 25C tires and Selle Italia, it's not much worse than my chromo Raleigh. What I did notice was a huge difference in the lateral stiffness of the frame, especially when climbing. You can really feel it steering while powering uphill. More on the ride, weather permitting...

Here's what it looked like:


It was worse than I anticipated, an after-dark parking lot light deal, which I swear I will never do again. Some things that got lost in the fog of CL impulse buying compounded with double parking:

1. The rear wheel was a Roval Aerodynamique tubular with a totally shot rim, although nice hub and bladed spokes. Couldn't even ride it until I replaced it with a ano Mavic MA40 which vaguely matches the ano Wolber up front. Anyone need a vintage Roval?

2. The Nitto handlebar had gotten squashed by the aero arm rest clamps. Had to saw it off! Replaced it with an SR RChamp, virtually the same dimension. Ahhh, much better.

3. Lots of chipped paint hiding under black electrical tape which the seller claimed was to "catch oil". Fortunately, the color is a close match of Ford's "chrome yellow", yeah the same color as recent model Mustangs.



I also replaced the DiaCompe AGC with Shimano 105SC. The DCs are nice and classic, but those skinny hoods kill my hands. I think the puffy frame has found a nice match in the puffy Shimano brakes.

4. The seller insisted it had indexed shifting, and it did click, but the bike was setup so badly you couldn't tell what was going on. Turns out it's ALMOST a Suntour Accushift Plus setup, it has an AP chain, AP cog set and Superbe AP shifters but the rear Sprint derailleur is non-indexed. The regular Sprint RD will index up to about the 3rd cog before misaligning. I'm getting a Cyclone 7000 in the mail this week and we'll see if that works, albeit it will not be the later PLUS edition. One thing you notice about the Suntour AP is the lack of beveling on the gears and the chain, something having to do with Shimano's copyright at the time. I'm thinking an HG/SRAM chain should also help. Here's a video of someone else's Cyclone indexing with non AP freewheel and Shimano chain - very promising.



5. I figured out how to repack sealed hub up front, but couldn't get them out in the rear hub. What's with these Nachis?

I think this bike is helping me get over aluminum phobia. In fact, it's piqued my interest in small diameter aluminum frames of the era. CV elegance, light and stiff? Works for me!

tugrul

So the front hub was loose ball and the "new" rear hub cartridge bearing? I hadn't heard of Nachi until now, but doing a search it seems to be a bearing manufacturer.

Chicago Al 

Yellow and black...that's a sharp combination and a great looking bike!

Kanegon

No, they're both sealed cartridges, but the seals actually pop off to reveal bearings in races bolted to the shell. I'm not sure if there's crud and wear under there, but rolls nicely with new grease. On the non drive side of the rear hub, I couldn't get the axle off and out of the way. Anyone know how to get take these apart? Do I need a special tool? What a PITA, considering I've ridden thru hundreds of miles of mud and water on plain bearings and crowns with no issues.

mapleleafs-13 

robbietunes has one similar to this i believe

Kanegon

Indeed, I inherited the tires from one of Robbie's more far-out restores. That Facet is my Facet's he-e-e-ro. There's precious little on these bikes, how many were made, how they were raced (they did apparently) and why they stopped making them. Aside from being two pounds lighter, how do they compare to the Ironman? What was the deal with 7000 AL, did anyone else use them, etc?

T-Mar

I'm not familar with this particular brand but many use a captive axle. These axles have small shoulders on the inside of the inside faces of the bearings, which prevent the axle from being removed individually. However, the shoulders facilitate removal of the cartridge bearings. Open the jaws of a vice wide enough to support the hub shell but not be under the bearing. Center one end of the hub carefully over the jaws. Tap the opposite end of the axle with a hammer to drive out the cartridge bearing and axle. Thread an old nut onto the axle to avoid damaging the threads when hitting with the hammer. For installingsealed cartridge bearings there is a special flanged driver, that looks like a solid, sealed cartridge bearing. Alternately, an appropriately sized socket, which contacts only the outer casing. can be used.

Sealed cartridge bearings are often damaged by the removal process, so they should not be removed unless there is an existing problem. Since the races are contained within the bearing, you ride them until they are toast and there will be no damage to the hub.

T-Mar

Technically, they're not small tubes. The Facet used moderately oversize tubes, they just weren't as oversize as a Cannondale or Klein. If you compare them to a standard steel frame or an Alan or Vitus aluminum frame, you'll see that they are oversize.

T-Mar

Almost invariably, the production ceases when money is not being made. This means that either sales were poor or they ran into too many production problems that reduced the profit margin.

As for the racing, the Texas Metros appear to have used them priamrily on long, hilly races or stages, where the weight and fatigue reduction from the more flexible frame gave them a edge over the standard, steel frames.

7000 series aluminum alloys were used by a number of other manufacturers, including some Miyata and Trek models. Basically, its stronger than 6000 series alloy but harder/more expensive to weld. Many 7000 series frames were bonded with adhesives.

RobbieTunes

As far as normal production, the Facet was claimed by Centurion to be the first welded 7000 production bike, whatever that means.
The fork was 6061 aluminum.

They were raced, in pink, by Centurion's female team (Rebecca Twigg, among others).
After that, the team, like many others, raced re-badged custom bikes.

The 1986 lineup was crowded, and Centurion had just shed the expensive Prestige, the expensive (Italian) Equipe, and had pretty much completely changed over it's graphics. The Ironman was right there, and the Facet was probably not selling the number to justify the expense.

Excellent job you've done there. People will ask you if Centurion's making new bikes again.

T-Mar

Robbie, are you sure on some of these facts? To the best of my knowledge. Twigg was still racing for 7-Eleven in 1986 and the Facets used by Centurion/Texas Metros were the standard yellow and black livery. As for the Prestige, it may not have been dropped for 1986. The database verifies it's existence in 1985 and 1989 but nothing in between. 1989 could have been a re-introduction or it could have been produced continuously and we simply do not have examples for the interim years. if there some new evidence?

RobbieTunes

I'm just going by what I've heard and read on the internet. I remember seeing photos of what looked like metallic pink Facets and a photo of Twigg in that yellow and purple animal-print jersey. I could easily be wrong. I assumed the jerseys were from the same era as the Facets.

Like you, I've not seen a Prestige in anything but the grey 1985, which was a high end bike, and a blue/white fade 1989, which didn't look like a high-end bike at all. It looked a lot more like a Panasonic DX6000 with an uglier paint job and 600 tricolor. I know a shop that sold Centurions, and he doesn't remember either one.

T-Mar

I wouldn't call the 1989 Prestige ugly, unless you consider the 1989 Ironman Master to be ugly. They were virtually the same bicycle, except for the tubeset; same Ultegra group, same geometry, same marble paint. To my knowledge, even all the secondary components were identical, with the exception of the bars, stem and post.

The only pink team bicycles I've seen were lugged frames. If you stumble across that picture of Twigg in the in the purple and yellow zebra jersey, I'd sure like to see it. And don't thow on your jersey and a blonde wig and try to pass yourself off as Twigg!

Kanegon

Apparently, they are in Germany. Did DiamondBack sell the name?

https://www.centurion.de/#

triplebutted

I don't even remember that model!

Kanegon

Oops, I guess the US Centurion brand had NOTHING to do with the German Centurion brand. Centurion DE apparently cut its teeth with MTBs during the same era Centurion US was making the Ironmans and LeMans (and a few Facets...). Weird they both had a model named Accordo, hows that for a coincidence? Separated at birth?

Chicago Al 

We've been over this before, but I don't think we have completely nailed it down. The EU Centurion brand...and the Australian one...must have had some link with the US Centurion. They used similar model names, in some cases similar bikes, sometimes the same model name for a different bike. For example there is an 80s 'Centurion Turbo' model that turns up in Australia, which is very much like an Ironman. Presumably in Oz the Ironman/Dave Scott name meant very little so they stuck with Turbo on the top of the line bike. Perhaps sometime in the 70s three different bike entreprenuers/importers/designers huddled at the big bike industry pow-wow and decided to pool resources and cooperate on ordering from Japanese suppliers, but complete independence in their own marketing and sales.

RobbieTunes

Then I'd have to shave my legs.

RobbieTunes

solar flare at conception.

JReade

So thats what the sprint dust caps are supposed to look like!

Kanegon

The Cyclone 7000 derailleur shifts like a champ! What's with all the fuss (and diatribe) over Accushift? The teeth and ramps aren't quite as pretty as Shimano's, but they work fine, in a robust Suntour kinda way - "kachunka!" Maybe it's not rocket science after all getting index shifters to work with spaced cog sets.

The 13-24 free wheel is marked AP (Accushift Plus) but there's no other clue, the chain just says Suntour but since it's working on a narrow-spaced 7 sp/126mm hub, it has to be an Ultra 7 chain. The pretty Superbe Pro index shifters were the main reason I decided to gamble on Accushift -- never mind the train left the station 30 years ago!

Setup didn't seem any harder than SIS. Suntour adds an additional spring at the frame pivot, which isn't as nice or light as Shimano's more integrated pivot. The Suntour's cable adjuster doesn't have EZ detents like Shimano's, but you can make finer adjustments. I used a Shimano cable and SIS SP housing, which proves you don't need to be a Suntour poster boy to make it work. The price of NOS Suntour cables and housing would be almost as much as I paid for the derailleur! Anyway, now I that I know it works, it'll be worth investing in a new beveled chain (SRAM 830).

RobbieTunes

True cult bike.

Kanegon

You still got one? I just discovered it's got the doomsday derailleur hanger. From what I can tell, there's no way to fix or replace it if it gets bent, since it's part of the aluminum dropout and frame. There's not an ounce of steel in that frame, just TIG welded 7001. (Mine has a Look Carbon fork though...)

linglingtom

You wouldn't happen to be selling this bike would you? I am quite interested in taking this off your hands...

Thanks!

Giacomo 1 

Hey Kanegon, great job on this bike!

I really like this model and the yellow is awsome looking. I've seen Robbies and it's one of the nicest bikes on this site. Your's is right there. I'm a fan of aluminum to. One of my bikes is an Miyata aluminum and feel much like you, the ride isn't nearly as bad as I've been told. It's actually very similar to my steel bikes.

I'll be on the lookout for your Centurion when I'm riding in Brooklyn. I'm also working in Brooklyn right now, so if you happen to be on Greenpoint and Kingsland Ave's. at the foot of the bridge and see an annoying construction project keeping the neighborhood awake all night long, stop by, and say hello! I'll be on the lookout...