Backpedaling - Restoring a 1960? Olmo to its Former Glory
04-15-20, 09:39 PM
#26
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Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
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I am enjoying this thread. Those Olmo frames look great, and similar components were stock on my littermate 1960 Capo Siegers, one of which is getting the original Gran Sport derailleurs, Agrati cottered crankset, alloy Simplex chainrings, high flange Record hubs, etc. There is something special about bikes of the 1960s.
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
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04-15-20, 09:56 PM
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beauty.
04-16-20, 12:25 PM
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pillar addendum -
forgot to mention that the first order of business with regard to this component should be to verify the size required.
just because the pillar which came with the machine was 26.0 does not mean that is the correct size.
i have a set of expandable blade reamers in my workshop. like to run one through not to enlarge what is there but just to get rid of any paint, rust, dried old grease and out-of-roundness. then check size. this procedure is even more important in machines which employ seat binder collars. Olmo used collars of stamped sheet which have four ninety degree corners at the rear which dig into the back of the seat tube, deforming it when the collar in cinched down.
possible frame's actual pillar size may be 26.2 or 26.4.
-----
pillar addendum -
forgot to mention that the first order of business with regard to this component should be to verify the size required.
just because the pillar which came with the machine was 26.0 does not mean that is the correct size.
i have a set of expandable blade reamers in my workshop. like to run one through not to enlarge what is there but just to get rid of any paint, rust, dried old grease and out-of-roundness. then check size. this procedure is even more important in machines which employ seat binder collars. Olmo used collars of stamped sheet which have four ninety degree corners at the rear which dig into the back of the seat tube, deforming it when the collar in cinched down.
possible frame's actual pillar size may be 26.2 or 26.4.
-----
I ran the reamer through it at a little over 26.0 and it only cut a few high spots in the top 30mm. Below that it slid right into the tube and even rattled around in it. I proceeded, increasing the size of the reamer by about .1mm for each pass until I finally got the slightest resistance at depths below about 50mm. At that point I measured the opening with my tapered seat tube sizing mandrel at between 26.4 and 26.6mm!
Please elaborate on your previous comment about "the correct font marking the name and size" for the appropriate age seatpost. I am familiar with the steel posts and with the lack of min. insert lines on newer posts but don't know what I should look for on the early aluminum posts.
I am immersing myself in the lore of Magistroni cranks and bottom brackets. There is a large variety of models, not to mention adapters and chainrings made by other companies for those cranks. I can't find much information on years of manufacture of the various models. It also appears that different tooth count combinations were available. I would appreciate any guidance or links that anyone can provide me.
The education I'm gaining here is half the fun.
Brent
04-16-20, 02:42 PM
#29
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You have saved my pancetta once already!
I ran the reamer through it at a little over 26.0 and it only cut a few high spots in the top 30mm. Below that it slid right into the tube and even rattled around in it. I proceeded, increasing the size of the reamer by about .1mm for each pass until I finally got the slightest resistance at depths below about 50mm. At that point I measured the opening with my tapered seat tube sizing mandrel at between 26.4 and 26.6mm!
Please elaborate on your previous comment about "the correct font marking the name and size" for the appropriate age seatpost. I am familiar with the steel posts and with the lack of min. insert lines on newer posts but don't know what I should look for on the early aluminum posts.
I am immersing myself in the lore of Magistroni cranks and bottom brackets. There is a large variety of models, not to mention adapters and chainrings made by other companies for those cranks. I can't find much information on years of manufacture of the various models. It also appears that different tooth count combinations were available. I would appreciate any guidance or links that anyone can provide me.
The education I'm gaining here is half the fun.
Brent
I ran the reamer through it at a little over 26.0 and it only cut a few high spots in the top 30mm. Below that it slid right into the tube and even rattled around in it. I proceeded, increasing the size of the reamer by about .1mm for each pass until I finally got the slightest resistance at depths below about 50mm. At that point I measured the opening with my tapered seat tube sizing mandrel at between 26.4 and 26.6mm!
Please elaborate on your previous comment about "the correct font marking the name and size" for the appropriate age seatpost. I am familiar with the steel posts and with the lack of min. insert lines on newer posts but don't know what I should look for on the early aluminum posts.
I am immersing myself in the lore of Magistroni cranks and bottom brackets. There is a large variety of models, not to mention adapters and chainrings made by other companies for those cranks. I can't find much information on years of manufacture of the various models. It also appears that different tooth count combinations were available. I would appreciate any guidance or links that anyone can provide me.
The education I'm gaining here is half the fun.
Brent
What I do know is the one on mine is almost certainly original and is 70mm shell. It is stamped Magistroni and is one of the reasons I bought the bike, it is mostly original when compared to others that seem to be. I had the chainrings on the Campy GS crank on the 58 Paramount before I got the much more correct Stronglight Competition that is on it now.
There seem to be a fair number of them that have this and also many that are stamped Olmo. I would like to find a 74mm BB spindle for it to be used on another project but in the words of Merz "hens teeth", so it goes. I may have a spindle made at some point maybe just for show or to ride sparingly.
The correct Campy crank, BB and pedals will be a pretty big ask, I tracked some of them for the Paramount but let them go when the $$$ spun out of sensibility and the Stronglight turned up.
This will be quite a journey and you have an outstanding specimen to work with, very much looking forward to it.
Sure wish mine was bigger.
04-16-20, 03:47 PM
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Olmo-branded headsets
https://www.ebay.it/itm/Serie-Sterzo...oAAOSwGDJeR~e1
https://www.ebay.it/itm/serie-sterzo...AAAOSwCLNbUFlX
Olmo-branded cranks
https://www.ebay.it/itm/Vintage-1940...UAAOSwW1NeOALq
https://www.ebay.it/itm/PEDIVELLA-BI...cAAOSwDJxdfS12
And, if you want to be really classy, Olmo/Cinelli city bars
https://www.ebay.it/itm/MANUBRIO-BIC...cAAOSwr0Rd84xM
The crank and headset are pretty common, if you wait a bit, you probably can get a better deal or better condition.
https://www.ebay.it/itm/Serie-Sterzo...oAAOSwGDJeR~e1
https://www.ebay.it/itm/serie-sterzo...AAAOSwCLNbUFlX
Olmo-branded cranks
https://www.ebay.it/itm/Vintage-1940...UAAOSwW1NeOALq
https://www.ebay.it/itm/PEDIVELLA-BI...cAAOSwDJxdfS12
And, if you want to be really classy, Olmo/Cinelli city bars
https://www.ebay.it/itm/MANUBRIO-BIC...cAAOSwr0Rd84xM
The crank and headset are pretty common, if you wait a bit, you probably can get a better deal or better condition.
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04-16-20, 03:49 PM
#31
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And in 1960, the bike could have been spaced 114mm for a 4-speed instead of 120 for a 5-speed.
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04-16-20, 06:03 PM
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Thanks iab for the help and for pointing me at Ebay Italy.
It appears that all of those sellers offer international shipping. Is that typical of Italian Ebay sellers or is there a special search tool you used to locate sellers who will ship internationally?
Brent
It appears that all of those sellers offer international shipping. Is that typical of Italian Ebay sellers or is there a special search tool you used to locate sellers who will ship internationally?
Brent
04-16-20, 06:27 PM
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Thanks iab for the help and for pointing me at Ebay Italy.
It appears that all of those sellers offer international shipping. Is that typical of Italian Ebay sellers or is there a special search tool you used to locate sellers who will ship internationally?
Brent
It appears that all of those sellers offer international shipping. Is that typical of Italian Ebay sellers or is there a special search tool you used to locate sellers who will ship internationally?
Brent
The only worst case scenario than saying no to US shipping is if they don't accept paypal. While pretty rare, it does happen. At that point, I like to use Xoom for a bank transfer, it's about $5 per transaction. The biggest risk they take your money and you have no recourse. Hasn't happened to me, but knock on wood.
Be prepared to wait. Things out of northern Italy tend to get to me quicker, but not always. I think 6 weeks was the longest I waited. 10 days was about the quickest.
Or, it you are feeling really adventurous, there is a great swap in Milan in February or Imola in September. A great time had by all.
04-16-20, 07:11 PM
#34
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reaming -
good to read tip of help
somewhat doubt you were taking .1mm per cut with an expandable blade
if i tried that with me Chadwicks they would simply bind up
can probably only take about .03mm per cut, estimate
sounds like you went slightly past OEM size, no harm although doubt anyone offers pillars in 26.5 size
from you description sounds like there was a bit of deformation caused by heat of brazing seat lug
tube set for frame hightly likely to be Falck plain gauge
---
pillar -
me comments about pillar markings were in reference to the Campag nr. 1044, commonly accepted launch date mcmlviii, have also seen mcmlvi - this latter may refer to the steel version
una pagina di catalogo Tullio numero xiv di mcmlx -
wrt changes through time:
How to date Campagnolo seat posts?
How to date Campagnolo seat posts?
How to date Campagnolo seat posts?
on browsing the machines shown at PeterB's was reminded that his own example of A.D. MCMLXIII came with a round rail NITOR pillar and saddle.
---
prodotti Giostra -
this, is a BIG topic
pretty much all of the Magistroni marked sets on Olmo cycles of this era are of the three-arm 116mm BCD type. nearly all exhibit the six-bolt c/w pattern where the smallest possible inner is 43T. most are without the Y-adaptor arrangement and have the inner c/w mounted directly to the outer. if you were to go with a Y-adaptor set advise to make sure to get steel adaptors and not alloy. the alloy ones are failure prone. adaptors typically made by Simplex (probably of Italy).
there are different quality levels/models including swaged. one quality cottered set comes through marked L. SENIOR.
catalogue page of nineteen and forty-eight:
Rebour rendering of design shown at a trade show of MCML. as far as is known never produced.
the fabulous Super Zenith model of 1965:
there was a period of a few years where Magistroni joined forces with Gerry Burgess (GB) of Britain and Altenburger of Germany to offer a road ensemble.
for at least four decades thought that the company logo illustrated a circus tent. wrongo! while listening to an automobile repair show on the radio learned that giostra is the italian word for carousel/merry-go-round.
production of Magistroni marked products ended 1965. there was an apparent re-org by Giostra which came out the other side with the product badges OMG, Of.Me.Ga./OFMEGA in 1966.
web site created by a neighbour -
Magistroni
other links:
Magistroni derailleurs
https://www.bdc-mag.com/forum/t/gipi...ofmega.105211/
---
NB - if you elect to go with a Magistroni chainset you will want to go with Sheffield pedals.
-----
reaming -
good to read tip of help
somewhat doubt you were taking .1mm per cut with an expandable blade
if i tried that with me Chadwicks they would simply bind up
can probably only take about .03mm per cut, estimate
sounds like you went slightly past OEM size, no harm although doubt anyone offers pillars in 26.5 size
from you description sounds like there was a bit of deformation caused by heat of brazing seat lug
tube set for frame hightly likely to be Falck plain gauge
---
pillar -
me comments about pillar markings were in reference to the Campag nr. 1044, commonly accepted launch date mcmlviii, have also seen mcmlvi - this latter may refer to the steel version
una pagina di catalogo Tullio numero xiv di mcmlx -
wrt changes through time:
How to date Campagnolo seat posts?
How to date Campagnolo seat posts?
How to date Campagnolo seat posts?
on browsing the machines shown at PeterB's was reminded that his own example of A.D. MCMLXIII came with a round rail NITOR pillar and saddle.
---
prodotti Giostra -
this, is a BIG topic
pretty much all of the Magistroni marked sets on Olmo cycles of this era are of the three-arm 116mm BCD type. nearly all exhibit the six-bolt c/w pattern where the smallest possible inner is 43T. most are without the Y-adaptor arrangement and have the inner c/w mounted directly to the outer. if you were to go with a Y-adaptor set advise to make sure to get steel adaptors and not alloy. the alloy ones are failure prone. adaptors typically made by Simplex (probably of Italy).
there are different quality levels/models including swaged. one quality cottered set comes through marked L. SENIOR.
catalogue page of nineteen and forty-eight:
Rebour rendering of design shown at a trade show of MCML. as far as is known never produced.
the fabulous Super Zenith model of 1965:
there was a period of a few years where Magistroni joined forces with Gerry Burgess (GB) of Britain and Altenburger of Germany to offer a road ensemble.
for at least four decades thought that the company logo illustrated a circus tent. wrongo! while listening to an automobile repair show on the radio learned that giostra is the italian word for carousel/merry-go-round.
production of Magistroni marked products ended 1965. there was an apparent re-org by Giostra which came out the other side with the product badges OMG, Of.Me.Ga./OFMEGA in 1966.
web site created by a neighbour -
Magistroni
other links:
Magistroni derailleurs
https://www.bdc-mag.com/forum/t/gipi...ofmega.105211/
---
NB - if you elect to go with a Magistroni chainset you will want to go with Sheffield pedals.
-----
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04-16-20, 07:49 PM
#35
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I love it when this happens.
04-16-20, 08:48 PM
#36
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juvela Many thanks for the additional information. What is the reason for pairing the Sheffield pedals with the Magistroni cranks?
Brent
Brent
04-16-20, 08:49 PM
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merziac thanks for uncovering and re-opening the Campy seatpost identification thread!
Brent
Brent
04-16-20, 08:53 PM
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Nope. I just go to ebay.it and see what catches my fancy. I'd say about 20-30% will have a shipping cost to the US. Otherwise I always ask if they ship to the US and how much is registered mail. "Ciao. Scusa la traduzione. Spedirai negli Stati Uniti? Se sì, quanto costa la posta raccomandata? Grazie." Posta raccomandata costs more, but I have only had issues shipping from Italy not using it.
The only worst case scenario than saying no to US shipping is if they don't accept paypal. While pretty rare, it does happen. At that point, I like to use Xoom for a bank transfer, it's about $5 per transaction. The biggest risk they take your money and you have no recourse. Hasn't happened to me, but knock on wood.
Be prepared to wait. Things out of northern Italy tend to get to me quicker, but not always. I think 6 weeks was the longest I waited. 10 days was about the quickest.
Or, it you are feeling really adventurous, there is a great swap in Milan in February or Imola in September. A great time had by all.
The only worst case scenario than saying no to US shipping is if they don't accept paypal. While pretty rare, it does happen. At that point, I like to use Xoom for a bank transfer, it's about $5 per transaction. The biggest risk they take your money and you have no recourse. Hasn't happened to me, but knock on wood.
Be prepared to wait. Things out of northern Italy tend to get to me quicker, but not always. I think 6 weeks was the longest I waited. 10 days was about the quickest.
Or, it you are feeling really adventurous, there is a great swap in Milan in February or Imola in September. A great time had by all.
Brent
04-16-20, 09:02 PM
#39
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juvela Many thanks for the additional information. What is the reason for pairing the Sheffield pedals with the Magistroni cranks?
Brent
Brent
it was in that configuration which machines fitted with Magistroni chainsets made their departure from Celle Ligure
most frequently employed model at this epoch was Sprint Nr. 658:
if you wanted to get cute suppose you cuold fit some Wa...
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Last edited by juvela; 04-17-20 at 05:18 AM. Reason: add peechas
04-16-20, 11:44 PM
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I guess that makes me "cute".
04-17-20, 05:21 AM
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04-17-20, 08:44 AM
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04-17-20, 03:58 PM
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I don't know. 658s are few and far between. 673s are common like dirt. Don't get me wrong, I prefer the 658 but there is no doubt there is nothing wrong with the 673. Good solid pedal.
04-17-20, 09:58 PM
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thank you iab
here are some pictures of the model 673
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thank you iab
here are some pictures of the model 673
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04-17-20, 10:52 PM
#46
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one can see frankish peds on cycles from many nations but Sheffields only seem to come on oytoy machines...
---
funny moment - years ago was communicating with a collector fellow by mail and telephone (decades before internet) and mentioned to him how ironic i found it that "Barelli" pedals were produced in England whilst "Sheffield" peds were done in Italia
he did not believe me, thought i was making a joke or pulling his leg and insisted it was the other way round, laughing disdainfully at me over the telephone for my stupidity
-----
one can see frankish peds on cycles from many nations but Sheffields only seem to come on oytoy machines...
---
funny moment - years ago was communicating with a collector fellow by mail and telephone (decades before internet) and mentioned to him how ironic i found it that "Barelli" pedals were produced in England whilst "Sheffield" peds were done in Italia
he did not believe me, thought i was making a joke or pulling his leg and insisted it was the other way round, laughing disdainfully at me over the telephone for my stupidity
-----
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04-18-20, 05:46 AM
#47
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-----
one can see frankish peds on cycles from many nations but Sheffields only seem to come on oytoy machines...
---
funny moment - years ago was communicating with a collector fellow by mail and telephone (decades before internet) and mentioned to him how ironic i found it that "Barelli" pedals were produced in England whilst "Sheffield" peds were done in Italia
he did not believe me, thought i was making a joke or pulling his leg and insisted it was the other way round, laughing disdainfully at me over the telephone for my stupidity
-----
one can see frankish peds on cycles from many nations but Sheffields only seem to come on oytoy machines...
---
funny moment - years ago was communicating with a collector fellow by mail and telephone (decades before internet) and mentioned to him how ironic i found it that "Barelli" pedals were produced in England whilst "Sheffield" peds were done in Italia
he did not believe me, thought i was making a joke or pulling his leg and insisted it was the other way round, laughing disdainfully at me over the telephone for my stupidity
-----
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04-27-20, 03:47 PM
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A small mystery
It wasn't until today that I discovered that the stem bolt is much longer than it needs to be. So much for my keen powers of observation!
To my credit I had previously noticed the two thin cuts in the bottom end of the stem, extending the original slots.
The other side:
The "O" at the top of the bolt leads me to believe it's an Olmo bolt.
What happened here?
Did some previous owner scavenge a bolt from an Olmo town bike with a longer stem?
Did Olmo just make one length bolt and use it in all their bikes and someone at the factory forgot to cut it off?
Did any of you who have owned Olmos come across this on your bikes?
And what about the saw cuts to extend the slots?
I noticed that it is very difficult to insert the steel stem into the steerer tube. I ended up gently squeezing the two sides of the stem to get it in. Perhaps the extended slots were some previous owner's solution to the problem?
I'm thinking I should TIG weld the two newer saw kerfs shut and use a small round file to establish a curve at the top of the old slots. Opinions?
Brent
It wasn't until today that I discovered that the stem bolt is much longer than it needs to be. So much for my keen powers of observation!
To my credit I had previously noticed the two thin cuts in the bottom end of the stem, extending the original slots.
The other side:
The "O" at the top of the bolt leads me to believe it's an Olmo bolt.
What happened here?
Did some previous owner scavenge a bolt from an Olmo town bike with a longer stem?
Did Olmo just make one length bolt and use it in all their bikes and someone at the factory forgot to cut it off?
Did any of you who have owned Olmos come across this on your bikes?
And what about the saw cuts to extend the slots?
I noticed that it is very difficult to insert the steel stem into the steerer tube. I ended up gently squeezing the two sides of the stem to get it in. Perhaps the extended slots were some previous owner's solution to the problem?
I'm thinking I should TIG weld the two newer saw kerfs shut and use a small round file to establish a curve at the top of the old slots. Opinions?
Brent
04-27-20, 04:18 PM
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If I were to take a swag (stupid wild ass guess), the bolt was not original and a previous owner thought it was a cool upgrade. I agree with the previous owner, it is a cool upgrade.
No opinion if you should weld or not, but I'm usually in the if it ain't broke, don't fix it camp. If you do fix it, drill a hole 2x larger in diameter than the slot width. It will make a better stress relief than just rounding it.
No opinion if you should weld or not, but I'm usually in the if it ain't broke, don't fix it camp. If you do fix it, drill a hole 2x larger in diameter than the slot width. It will make a better stress relief than just rounding it.
04-27-20, 04:24 PM
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obrentharris
I know technically very little about this but I do know that subjecting parts like this to heat/tig/welding can lead to trouble from 40 years of drag racing motorcycles and seeing many extremely competent welder/machinist/fabricators add/fab/weld brackets/mounts/ bits and bobs perfectly and beautifully only to have them fail/crack/depart for various and sundry unknown reasons, some being pretty scary.
I realize this is somewhat different and am sure an expert will weigh in but this is a case where you don't want to have to go looking for another one of these unnecessarily.
I would proceed with extreme caution even though this may not be that big of a deal.
I wholeheartedly agree with iab in this case, if it ain't broke..... maybe smooth out the slot with emery cloth.
I know technically very little about this but I do know that subjecting parts like this to heat/tig/welding can lead to trouble from 40 years of drag racing motorcycles and seeing many extremely competent welder/machinist/fabricators add/fab/weld brackets/mounts/ bits and bobs perfectly and beautifully only to have them fail/crack/depart for various and sundry unknown reasons, some being pretty scary.
I realize this is somewhat different and am sure an expert will weigh in but this is a case where you don't want to have to go looking for another one of these unnecessarily.
I would proceed with extreme caution even though this may not be that big of a deal.
I wholeheartedly agree with iab in this case, if it ain't broke..... maybe smooth out the slot with emery cloth.
Last edited by merziac; 04-27-20 at 04:27 PM.