Reynolds 

So, the TdF people are all wrong. They think average speed is a significant. BF experts must show them the truth.

patentcad

Some misguided mod thinks this belongs in the Pro Cycling Forum, but they really miss the point. This thread speaks to the very Core of Fred itself. This topic couldn't possibly be more 41.

patentcad

Don't worry, I forgave him.

Velo Vol 

I can see that history is not a BikeForums strong suit.

jayp410

OK, you TdF historians.... Do you know when the importance of drafting was fully realized? What about organized team support? Team radio communications?

rangerdavid

the answer to all of those questions was Junior Johnson and NASCAR.... at least in this here part of the Appalachians.

kimconyc

I can't believe that nobody has mentioned the fact that Lance holds the fastest ever average speed (26mph) and at the ripe-old age of 34.

It's not about the bike; I'll say...

jayp410

That's one reason I was wondering about team dynamics... I thought the commentators were saying that during the Lance era the team tactics evolved or matured. If his teammates were more aggressive or something, like setting the pace faster to stay in front, that could explain some of it.

kimconyc

I was alluding to something a lot more cynical and sinister but, yeah, that will work...

wphamilton

I don't see much evidence of sudden jumps recently:

kimconyc

The above graph would mean more if it also showed percentage of riders finishing, and also time gaps between riders over time (years).

patentcad

The average speed of a Grand Tour will be faster if:

• There is a team time trial

• There are more flat stages and less vertical feet

• The riders are all seriously juiced on EPO

The times for the major climbs in the Grand Tours has risen notably in the last 4 years. The winning time on Alp DHuez this year was 4 minutes slower than the fast times in the Lance/Pantani era. The bio passports of UCI riders are spooky for 5% of the pro peloton, benign for 95% of the top pros. All that is rather compelling circumstantial evidence that the sport has cleaned up, and relatively recently.

No matter how you slice it, the average speed of pro cycling has risen about 5mph in the past 50 years. I think that's half (much) better gear and half a higher quality peloton.

WHOOOSSHHH...

And Cervelo's...

wphamilton

It's average speed of the winners from the OP link, so the time gaps with other riders and percentage finishing would not change the interpretation much.

It does seem to me that peloton speeds would reflect doping more than the winners, but I don't see the correlation between winner's speed and the nominal onset of doping.

pgjackson

According to the data, guys in the 60's were only about 1 mph slower than Cadel.

patentcad

2-3 mph, but I do realize many here in the 41 lack basic arithmetic skills.

rangerdavid

Lance holds the FASTEST average speed.


Won the most TdF races.


So is LANCE the best cyclist ever??

rangerdavid

troll

rangerdavid

well the facts posted by the his high holiness the right reverend pcad himself seem to speak for themselves.........

BlueWilier

And his legs are in fact shaved!

Note how the old races were over 5K and the new TDF is just over 3K. Perhaps the other nearly 2K makes them more tired and hence the lower AVG speed?

BlueWilier

Plot it against tour length in KM. I suspect we will see an inverse correlation.

patentcad

Inverse correlations RULE.

Grasschopper

Yea but there are other factors than that. This year you have to factor in the fact that they went over the Col du Telegraphe and Col du Galibier before hitting the Alp d'Huez. And in race tactics there was a break of significance that contained and had to be chased by contenders so they used a lot of energy before the final climb. Armstrong's near record pace was on an individual time trial stage that was JUST Alp d'Huez (I'm a Lance fan but willing to admit he was probably doping within the limits of testing as well). I don't know the details of the stage when Pantani race but we do know he was doped to the gills, it was also the day after an ITT and 2 days after a rest day.

Just saying too much at play to say they are clearly cleaner this year because they are 4 min slower on that climb.

Gorden Gekko

You never heard guys in the 1930's saying "My Dura-Ace doesn't shift smooth enough,I need to upgrade to electronic shifting!!"

wphamilton

I think you're right.

edited to add percent finishing graph. The correlation is stronger with speed vs percent finishing. Maybe everyone being stronger increases the level of competition, or perhaps the winners' speed depends in part on the strength of the peloton .