“You leave your house...But you never know if you’ll be back.”
08-20-18, 02:35 PM
#26
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I don't believe any motorists are "out to get me". I quit all pleasure riding about three years ago when it became obvious that many motorists are no longer looking through their windscreen on a regular basis. Ironically, it happened while i was forced to drive a car for 6 months. In a car I could keep up with cars doing 30-50 mph and notice just HOW LONG they look at their phones each time. That was my wake-up call right there. Hell, I biked across the USA five times from 1988-1997. It was dangerous enough at times but I always suspected motorists were LOOKING at the road. Maybe drunk, maybe tuning a radio, messing with kids, but all in all LOOKING. Now...no way would I do that.
I do still cycle to work 5 miles each way. Much of my route these days are on new bike lanes and greenways. So it's still doable and I can save a lot of cash.
A person can get "Combat Fatigue Syndrome" without joining the military. There are many ways to do it. No one has to be coming for you personally or on purpose for it to be effected.
I do still cycle to work 5 miles each way. Much of my route these days are on new bike lanes and greenways. So it's still doable and I can save a lot of cash.
A person can get "Combat Fatigue Syndrome" without joining the military. There are many ways to do it. No one has to be coming for you personally or on purpose for it to be effected.
08-20-18, 02:39 PM
#27
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08-20-18, 06:54 PM
#28
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I don't believe any motorists are "out to get me". I quit all pleasure riding about three years ago when it became obvious that many motorists are no longer looking through their windscreen on a regular basis. Ironically, it happened while i was forced to drive a car for 6 months. In a car I could keep up with cars doing 30-50 mph and notice just HOW LONG they look at their phones each time. That was my wake-up call right there. Hell, I biked across the USA five times from 1988-1997. It was dangerous enough at times but I always suspected motorists were LOOKING at the road. Maybe drunk, maybe tuning a radio, messing with kids, but all in all LOOKING. Now...no way would I do that.
I do still cycle to work 5 miles each way. Much of my route these days are on new bike lanes and greenways. So it's still doable and I can save a lot of cash.
A person can get "Combat Fatigue Syndrome" without joining the military. There are many ways to do it. No one has to be coming for you personally or on purpose for it to be effected.
I do still cycle to work 5 miles each way. Much of my route these days are on new bike lanes and greenways. So it's still doable and I can save a lot of cash.
A person can get "Combat Fatigue Syndrome" without joining the military. There are many ways to do it. No one has to be coming for you personally or on purpose for it to be effected.
Is voluntarily choosing to ride a bicycle on the road causing you to believe you have Combat Fatigue Syndrome?
08-20-18, 08:26 PM
#29
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It's dangerous enough walking in the city. I can't believe they rent citibikes to any old schlub and tourists. I doubt there's much legal responsibility to the bike share companies but maybe there should be
Generally I get kudos or just indifference towards my cycling, mostly as a year-round commuter here in Metro Boston, even after my serious accident four years ago…
One soft argument I read on Bikeforums is that cycling in traffic really does look dangerous to car drivers ensconced in their vehicles. Personally I feel pretty safe, well-lit, with unlimited vision with mirrors, and pretty nimble on my bike. Nonetheless, I’m totally attentive to the cars around me, and I have a number of safety aphorisms in my mind to keep me alert …
Once though, I was standing on a busy intersection (Massachusetts and Commonwealth Aves) one Saturday night watching some happy-go-lucky student-type cyclists on Hubway Bike Share bikes, no helmets, riding along and laughing in traffic, and I thought to myself that really does look dangerous.
One soft argument I read on Bikeforums is that cycling in traffic really does look dangerous to car drivers ensconced in their vehicles. Personally I feel pretty safe, well-lit, with unlimited vision with mirrors, and pretty nimble on my bike. Nonetheless, I’m totally attentive to the cars around me, and I have a number of safety aphorisms in my mind to keep me alert …
Once though, I was standing on a busy intersection (Massachusetts and Commonwealth Aves) one Saturday night watching some happy-go-lucky student-type cyclists on Hubway Bike Share bikes, no helmets, riding along and laughing in traffic, and I thought to myself that really does look dangerous.
Frankly, I have posted that I would not be inclined to encourage, unless by example (nor discourage) someone to cycle-commute, but if they so chose, I would freely and gladly give any advice...
Public exhortations to cycle-commute, or utility cycle are well and good with no individual responsibility for bad outcomes, but I would not want the recriminations of a personal endorsement if something bad happened. Also, with regards to “recreational cycling,” actual organizing, promoting, or similar, may entail IMO a liability beyond a personal guilt trip if something goes wrong….
FWW, I’m not advocatin’ against, just sayin’
Public exhortations to cycle-commute, or utility cycle are well and good with no individual responsibility for bad outcomes, but I would not want the recriminations of a personal endorsement if something bad happened. Also, with regards to “recreational cycling,” actual organizing, promoting, or similar, may entail IMO a liability beyond a personal guilt trip if something goes wrong….
FWW, I’m not advocatin’ against, just sayin’
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 08-21-18 at 02:58 AM.
08-20-18, 11:43 PM
#32
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08-21-18, 08:29 AM
#33
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The layman's term is Combat Fatigue Syndrome. Non military people enduring stressful situations where their life is at stake, or they believe so, get this all the time. The only cure is to "remove yourself from the 'life threatening' situation". Many people need therapy afterwards as well, but therapy won't work if they are still under duress. Use The Google. It's easy to find.
08-21-18, 08:38 AM
#34
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I'm glad this didn't get bumped to P&R yet as I was making a point when posting it here. A few folks responding caught what I was trying to achieve:
Bike riding is not inherently "Safe". In fact, it isn't safe at all under many normal conditions. Here is my logic:
People who are non cyclists are injected into a very advanced cycling situation. They feel lucky to be alive at the end of the day. They certainly don't feel safe. Also:
Yeah! Existing around moving vehicles is freaking dangerous. So, if you are a newbie it is dangerous, obviously. But if you are a "Master" cyclist, does that make the SITUATION any LESS dangerous? No it does NOT. The situation is exactly the same. YOU figured out how to bend the odds SLIGHTLY in your favor by acquiring skills and possessing the ability to concentrate and SEE ten things at one. How/why do these skills evolve? Because you are ADAPTING to DANGER.
Cycling in the real world is inherently dangerous. Just HOW dangerous depends on the rider, the situation, and LUCK.
This was the A&S point I was trying to make.
Bike riding is not inherently "Safe". In fact, it isn't safe at all under many normal conditions. Here is my logic:
People who are non cyclists are injected into a very advanced cycling situation. They feel lucky to be alive at the end of the day. They certainly don't feel safe. Also:
Originally Posted by TheLibrarian 
It's dangerous enough walking in the city. I can't believe they rent citibikes to any old schlub and tourists...
It's dangerous enough walking in the city. I can't believe they rent citibikes to any old schlub and tourists...
Cycling in the real world is inherently dangerous. Just HOW dangerous depends on the rider, the situation, and LUCK.
This was the A&S point I was trying to make.
Last edited by JoeyBike; 08-21-18 at 09:02 AM.
08-21-18, 10:05 AM
#35
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Ok, after years of riding and not being killed, you've explained why you now feel that cycling along with motor traffic is too dangerous to continue. What I don't understand is why you are posting this here, where everyone knows the risks as well as you do. Should we give up riding too, just to be "safe"?
08-21-18, 10:43 AM
#36
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Ok, after years of riding and not being killed, you've explained why you now feel that cycling along with motor traffic is too dangerous to continue. What I don't understand is why you are posting this here, where everyone knows the risks as well as you do. Should we give up riding too, just to be "safe"?
In here (A&S) I have noticed over the years that almost every time someone posts one of those "Cyclists Killed By Drunk Driver" or "Cyclist Killed By Texting Driver" everyone starts hammering together another gallows for the motorist but very rarely, almost never (unless it's me) does anyone HERE mention "Man, I wouldn't be riding on THAT road at THAT time on a bicycle". Everything is the "shark's fault" and never the "swimmer" venturing into shark infested waters.
There is a certain aura of entitlement around here (not everyone) that is pervasive in A&S regarding our "rights to the roadway". Basically, you shoudn't be doing something JUST because you CAN and expect the whole world to cow-tow to your behavior. Cycling in traffic ranges from "risky" to "incredibly risky". Nobody is MAKING us go out there. If I get hosed, it's on me. I know it's risky but I do it anyway. If I deem it "incredibly risky", then I likely will not anymore.
So my posts like this one are designed to restore a balance between the "Hang The Motorist" crowd and those of us who take personal responsibility for playing in traffic with the knowledge that we might not come home one night. New people find BikeForums every day. So I try to keep a thread like this on Page 1 at all times. My way of "giving back" to the cycling community. Basically I am like a sign on the beach that says "Shark Infested Waters - Swim At Your Own Risk". It is rare here in Advocacy and SAFETY that anyone wants to be the shark sign. So I took it upon myself.
If someone was to read this post and decide to NOT take up cycling because of it, I would be sad. But at least they had the full story to base their decision upon.
Cheers.
Last edited by JoeyBike; 08-21-18 at 10:47 AM.
08-21-18, 11:32 AM
#37
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The layman's term is Combat Fatigue Syndrome. Non military people enduring stressful situations where their life is at stake, or they believe so, get this all the time. The only cure is to "remove yourself from the 'life threatening' situation". Many people need therapy afterwards as well, but therapy won't work if they are still under duress. Use The Google. It's easy to find.
I don’t know why you referenced it in a discussion on a bike forum.
It certainly had nothing to do with the OP which was nothing more than a link to a ridiculous illegal immigrant article.
So again I ask you; did you reference Combat Fatigue Syndrome because it pertains to you riding a bicycle?
If so, I hope you are receiving the proper medical and psychological treatment.
Last edited by downhillmaster; 08-21-18 at 11:38 AM.
08-21-18, 11:46 AM
#38
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If riding a bike is as stressful to you as being in combat, then maybe it's not for you.
08-21-18, 12:10 PM
#40
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...
So my posts like this one are designed to restore a balance between the "Hang The Motorist" crowd and those of us who take personal responsibility for playing in traffic with the knowledge that we might not come home one night. New people find BikeForums every day. So I try to keep a thread like this on Page 1 at all times. My way of "giving back" to the cycling community. Basically I am like a sign on the beach that says "Shark Infested Waters - Swim At Your Own Risk". It is rare here in Advocacy and SAFETY that anyone wants to be the shark sign. So I took it upon myself.
...
So my posts like this one are designed to restore a balance between the "Hang The Motorist" crowd and those of us who take personal responsibility for playing in traffic with the knowledge that we might not come home one night. New people find BikeForums every day. So I try to keep a thread like this on Page 1 at all times. My way of "giving back" to the cycling community. Basically I am like a sign on the beach that says "Shark Infested Waters - Swim At Your Own Risk". It is rare here in Advocacy and SAFETY that anyone wants to be the shark sign. So I took it upon myself.
...
08-21-18, 01:50 PM
#41
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This makes me wonder what differentiates your sentiment from the "blame the victim" comments at the end of EVERY news story about a cyclist being killed. I promise you that everyone has seen these comments. Do you post similar comments on stories about construction workers who are killed due to another person's negligence? I mean, they should have known what they were getting into. That's on them.
When I vacation at the beach, my wife and I walk on the beach, hang out at the beach, and swim in the hotel pool. When our friends get stung up by jellyfish in the ocean, I don't feel too sorry for them. Didn't they know that was a possibility? Don't blame the mindless jellyfish, it won't make the sting feel any better. Some mindless motorist dolt smacks a cyclist who is doing everything "right", sure that sucks, but they swam in the ocean of their own accord.
The construction worker you mentioned does take a risk that prevents him and his family from starving. Some kitted-up weekend warrior cycling out on State Highway 51 during the nearby plant 5PM shift change on a Friday afternoon is putting him/herself at risk just for the fun of it. Big difference. Even if the cyclist IS a construction worker.
Last edited by JoeyBike; 08-21-18 at 01:55 PM.
08-21-18, 01:59 PM
#42
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Nah, A&S can be like people who purchase a house near an international airport then complain about the jet engine noise.
When I vacation at the beach, my wife and I walk on the beach, hang out at the beach, and swim in the hotel pool. When our friends get stung up by jellyfish in the ocean, I don't feel too sorry for them. Didn't they know that was a possibility? Don't blame the mindless jellyfish, it won't make the sting feel any better. Some mindless motorist dolt smacks a cyclist who is doing everything "right", sure that sucks, but they swam in the ocean of their own accord.
The construction worker you mentioned does take a risk that prevents him and his family from starving. Some kitted-up weekend warrior cycling out on State Highway 51 during the nearby plant 5PM shift change on a Friday afternoon is putting him/herself at risk just for the fun of it. Big difference. Even if the cyclist IS a construction worker.
When I vacation at the beach, my wife and I walk on the beach, hang out at the beach, and swim in the hotel pool. When our friends get stung up by jellyfish in the ocean, I don't feel too sorry for them. Didn't they know that was a possibility? Don't blame the mindless jellyfish, it won't make the sting feel any better. Some mindless motorist dolt smacks a cyclist who is doing everything "right", sure that sucks, but they swam in the ocean of their own accord.
The construction worker you mentioned does take a risk that prevents him and his family from starving. Some kitted-up weekend warrior cycling out on State Highway 51 during the nearby plant 5PM shift change on a Friday afternoon is putting him/herself at risk just for the fun of it. Big difference. Even if the cyclist IS a construction worker.
08-21-18, 02:35 PM
#43
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Nah, A&S can be like people who purchase a house near an international airport then complain about the jet engine noise.
When I vacation at the beach, my wife and I walk on the beach, hang out at the beach, and swim in the hotel pool. When our friends get stung up by jellyfish in the ocean, I don't feel too sorry for them. Didn't they know that was a possibility? Don't blame the mindless jellyfish, it won't make the sting feel any better. Some mindless motorist dolt smacks a cyclist who is doing everything "right", sure that sucks, but they swam in the ocean of their own accord.
The construction worker you mentioned does take a risk that prevents him and his family from starving. Some kitted-up weekend warrior cycling out on State Highway 51 during the nearby plant 5PM shift change on a Friday afternoon is putting him/herself at risk just for the fun of it. Big difference. Even if the cyclist IS a construction worker.
When I vacation at the beach, my wife and I walk on the beach, hang out at the beach, and swim in the hotel pool. When our friends get stung up by jellyfish in the ocean, I don't feel too sorry for them. Didn't they know that was a possibility? Don't blame the mindless jellyfish, it won't make the sting feel any better. Some mindless motorist dolt smacks a cyclist who is doing everything "right", sure that sucks, but they swam in the ocean of their own accord.
The construction worker you mentioned does take a risk that prevents him and his family from starving. Some kitted-up weekend warrior cycling out on State Highway 51 during the nearby plant 5PM shift change on a Friday afternoon is putting him/herself at risk just for the fun of it. Big difference. Even if the cyclist IS a construction worker.
There's quite a mental difference between jellyfish, and even sharks and HUMANs... the latter as "mindless motorist dolt" has made a choice to be said dolt... and if that is their choice, they should not be piloting a 2 ton vehicle on public streets.
By the same token, the idiot dolt cyclist that blindly swerves into traffic... probably should not be riding on public streets.
But when the cyclist is "playing by all the rules," we expect motorists to at least attempt to do the same. That "attempt" isn't always made.... and that's when folks don't return home...
08-21-18, 03:02 PM
#44
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There's quite a mental difference between jellyfish, and even sharks and HUMANs... the latter as "mindless motorist dolt" has made a choice to be said dolt... and if that is their choice, they should not be piloting a 2 ton vehicle on public streets.
By the same token, the idiot dolt cyclist that blindly swerves into traffic... probably should not be riding on public streets.
But when the cyclist is "playing by all the rules," we expect motorists to at least attempt to do the same. That "attempt" isn't always made.... and that's when folks don't return home...
By the same token, the idiot dolt cyclist that blindly swerves into traffic... probably should not be riding on public streets.
But when the cyclist is "playing by all the rules," we expect motorists to at least attempt to do the same. That "attempt" isn't always made.... and that's when folks don't return home...
08-21-18, 09:38 PM
#45
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08-22-18, 09:22 AM
#46
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The nature of the U.S.'s roads makes them dangerous to all road users. If you get too hung up on it, you'll never leave your house. Be aware, do what you can to minimize the danger to yourself and others, live your life.
08-22-18, 09:30 AM
#47
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Memento mori.
08-22-18, 10:26 AM
#48
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08-22-18, 01:28 PM
#49
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That's been my life...continuing.
08-23-18, 12:36 PM
#50
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