99Klein 

I decided to go mech as well after test riding the Di2. Don't get me wrong there was NOTHING wrong with the Di2. It just didn't "feel" right to my hands/brain. Too old school I guess. I do think you could get use to it pretty quickly though, and if you only have one bike it should not be an issue. Don't know that I would want to switch back and forth, but then I don't like switching from one groupo to another anyway. You get use to the good stuff and dropping down can be frustrating.

RoderWrench

Nothing to do with road feel at all. With levers you feel the weight of the derailleur as transmitted through the cable. Di2 you feel a button click. In a car, it's similar to the difference between a manual transmission and a paddle shifted automatic.

I'm not against Di2 BTW, for racers especially, it's superior technology. I just get more tactile satisfaction shifting gears myself rather than what amounts to clicking a mouse button.

I'm in the process of going a step further by setting up a bike with bar end friction shifters. Maybe I'm getting a little too Grant Petersony for the the 41.

EDIT: Sorry, I just echoed WalksOn2Wheels

DaveWC

I get no satisfaction from shifting gears whether I use the Di2 Ultegra on my current bike of the mechanical Ultegra on my previous bike. I'm just shifting gears. If the gear changes appropriately, quickly & under whatever condition I subject it to, then it's a win. There is no feeling of satisfaction for me depending on the "click" or "cable weight" of the shift. Shifting is just something that I'm required to do sometimes to maintain my desired cadence & power under the changing conditions of the road. My Di2 works effortlessly & requires minimal maintenance. It allows me to make errors in judgment regarding when I should be shifting & shifts regardless.

For the OP, it makes a lot of sense to me to have at least tried Di2 prior to plunking down any money for DA Di2. How hard could that have been? Your previous experiences with Trek frames is irrelevant to your choice of a new tech drivetrain.

Stucky

Some of us prefer downtube shifters. Simple as dirt (and cheaper!); You get ALL of the feedback; You can skip as many cogs as you choose to, instantaneously; and, unlimited trim positions. All at the flick of a lever (And only ONE flick...). Using switches and servo motors and computers and batteries and wires to accomplish the same thing, is ridiculous. It's a case of technology being used for the "wow factor", and of needlessly complicating a very simple function. I wouldn't have Di2 if it were free!

Why have a human-powered vehicle...and then have to use a MOTOR just to nudge your chain over an eighth of an inch?

rmfnla

Another example is the shutter noise that can be programmed on a smart phone camera...

WalksOn2Wheels

I'm not anti-Di2, but I don't particularly want it. Is your sole purpose of existence here to complain about technology every chance you get? We do have a C&V subforum, you know.

Stucky

Yes; when technology is used gratuitously- just for technology's sake; when it degrades something, rather than improving it; and when it needlessly complicates something which can be done better and more efficiently with very simple technology.

Is your purpose in life just to complain about me expressing my dislike for electronic shifting?

WalksOn2Wheels

I'm just pointing out the fact that when you had the Venge, all you did was whine about the Venge and all carbon fiber. That's a very common theme for you. And now you're talking about how awesome downtube shifters are compared to everything else. I just thought I'd do you the favor of letting you know that this is "road cycling" subforum and that a "classic & vintage" subforum exists for those individuals who are not into the current road scene. They're lovely people over there.

corrado33

I'm confused. How does the electronic shifting change the fact that when you're putting down a ton of power, the derailleur isn't going to be able to move the chain very easily? Are you saying that it's just easier to hit the button? Or are you actually saying that the derailleur works better in those situations?

As for maintenance? Well, properly maintained = 10 seconds every thousand miles or so? Every once in awhile I have to move the barrel adjuster a bit, which I generally do while sitting at a stoplight. Once every few years I have to replace the housing and cable. I think that amount of time is still shorter than taking the time to charge the batteries (once a week like shimano suggests.)

My biggest thing is this. Electronics have a lifetime. They do. Especially electronics made to go outside. Heat cycling causes boards and solder to heat and cool, causing loose solder joints over time. Sure, you could make similar aging arguments for old derailleurs, but let's put it this way. Yesterday someone donated a 1940s schwinn that sat in a garage for a long time. I put air in the tires and rode it. The shifters still worked. Not well mind you, but they worked. Could you say the same for Di2? Do you think you'd still have the charger after 80 years? No. It's because Di2 isn't made for bikes that'll be around forever. It's made for racers who replace their bikes often.

I have nothing against Di2, I'm just poor and will never use it. I don't need the latest technology to go fast and enjoy my rides. I really don't something so critical on my bike controlled by a battery. I use batteries for my lights, they're a pain as it is. (Will be upgrading to a dynamo soon though!) I'd like my shifting to remain completely mechanical thank you very much.

Besides, I'm poor.

WalksOn2Wheels

When you're using mechanical, the linear (linear meaning left-right in the direction of derailleur travel) force you can put down via a small cable is smaller than the linear force of a powerful servo. Under load, a servo doesn't care and moves exactly X millimeters regardless of how much power you're putting through the drivetrain.

So there is an advantage depending on the rider. I suck anyway, so shifting that much better won't matter.

corrado33

I don't think that's right. When I'm downshifting under load (up a hill) the derailleur still moves exactly where it is supposed to be (indexed shifting makes sure of that), it's just that since you're putting a lot of power through the chain, it can't make space between itself and the cog it's on to shift. No amount of "powerful movement" will fix that. Unless the derailleur detects that you're shifting under load and overshifts by a wider margin (something that most people familiar with bikes would do instinctively under the conditions.) Yes, rear derailleurs SHOULD be able to shift under load since they deal with the slack part of the chain, under real world conditions that's not always true.

Stucky

I do post occasionally in C&V- it is "my bag"-I just seem to find more entertainment here on the 41- and I like to keep abreast of the new stuff (Although, considering the direction in which the new stuff seems to be going, I'm not finding it very interesting anymore...)

And i didn't whine about the Venge- it was a nice enough bike- it just wasn't any better than my old Klein- nor as durable. At least I gave it a try, right? Actually, it made me feel a little more confident about CF; it's just not for me.

RJM

The electronic system just works better in those situations...and yes, the buttons are easier to manipulate. I'm assuming the servos in the derailleur put the pulleys exactly where they are supposed to go and when you are cranking with a wire driven system it can get all funky.

Well, properly maintained is the catch. On my 6800 I've had to replace the rear cable twice this year already and now it is starting to hang up again going from large cog to smaller cogs, so the housing is probably a bit chewed up. I probably don't "properly maintain" my bike...I just ride it a bunch and fix it when a real issue comes up.

Now, don't get me wrong...I personally prefer the mechanical. I can work on them myself and I know what is going wrong when an issue comes up. I'm terrible with cleaning my bike though, and I fear that causes my cables to need replacing more often than others. This kind of thing doesn't bother me though...certainly not enough to go electronic. I do see the appeal for others though.

WalksOn2Wheels

Have you either ridden a bike with Di2 or worked with any sort of electronic servos? Those things are STRONG. Much stronger than you can pull a cable with a small lever arm. Yes, you can shift any properly tuned bike under load, but you're going to get a lot of resistance from a mechanical shifter and a lot of nasty noise before the shift completes. With electronic, it instantly moves a specific distance in a specific amount of time consistently with each shift, regardless of the load on the drivetrain. Both mechanical and electronic can do it, but the electronic group can do it faster because it's stronger and doesn't have to "push" through the shift like a finger on a lever. This equates to less teeth crunching through half a shift while your finger tries to push that derailleur to the next position.

Just go to your local shop and test ride a Di2 bike for kicks. Take it to a small hill, put it in a stupid high gear and slam it through some gears while you mash the pedals. You'll see what I'm talking about.

WalksOn2Wheels

I certainly can't argue the bolded point.

Stucky

Well, now I know. Next time, I'll just bold my whole post!

WalksOn2Wheels

Wheever

Meh. I've ridden Di2 a bunch of times and was singularly unimpressed. Not because of something amiss in function, but rather I actually *enjoy* the feel of shifting a mechanical drivetrain. Just as I enjoy driving my manual transmission car more than my girlfriend's automatic. It's beyond just tactile. It's something, for me, wholly elemental. A connection to the bike, and to this activity we love.

In addition, I didn't like the feel of the little binky button, or its shape and placement. Also: with mechanical, you can feel the shift, or mis-shift, before you can hear the result of the shift through chain noise. Not the case with the Di2. You'd only know it mis-shifted after the fact.

NB: I'm no luddite. I love the disk brakes on my Domane, and would now never buy a bike without them. And I knew that from the first time I squeezed the brake lever on a disk-equipped bike.

MCODave

All I'm gonna say is that certain groups just belong on certain bikes. And to me, at least the Madone 9.x and Di2 seem to go together. Just like a shiny silver Athena group just belongs on an lugged-steel Italian bike.

I would think that the same personality who walks into a bike shop and walks out with the latest Madone is the also the same kind who would want an electronic group. Didn't someone call it a bike designed by Apple for Batman?

JohnJ80

^this.

I got my first Di2 bike this spring when I built up a custom framed bike. I went with Di2 just because it's a much cleaner look on the frame and bars if done right. At first I thought it wasn't that big of a deal. Then when I consider I haven't made a bad shift since I got it. Plus, I can simultaneously shift both the front and rear derailleurs. Now, I really really like it much more over my mech bikes. Would be really no fun going back.

J.

shelbyfv

Maybe because you would lose money selling it? If you like the bike otherwise, just sell the Di2 bits and replace with mechanical.

SpeshulEd 

It tends to really upset the people that just bought a new mechanical bike.