jimmuller 

AH, photogravity, I was meaning FreeWheel, not FW IGH.

Our tandem has a Suntour F(ree)W(heel) stamped Tandem which I assume implies larger pawls.

The rattle on the Masi has me puzzled a bit. There is nothing loose (nothing too loose and nothing to lose). When I bounce the rear tire at home I hear nothing special. It isn't chain slap on the top of the stay because I hear it even when I'm under power. Perhaps it is chain slap underneath, but I don't think so. When I shift gears it has a decidedly industrial cha-click sound as if amplified by the plates of the cage. By comparison the Cyclone on the Bianchi is eerily quiet. I can also rattle the chain by hand in the cage and have it make some noise. In any case, it works.

FW indeed!

Grand Bois

Do you realize that you are the only one talking about internal gear hubs in this discussion of derailers?

lostarchitect 

That's Photogravity's M.O.!

FWIW, I also have had no trouble using a NR derailleur with a 28T big cog.

jimmuller 

Nah, that's Dallas' MO you're think' of. His problem is, he rides a Norman Rapide with only 4 cogs instead of 5.

For the OP's benefit, I don't doubt a NR could be made to handle a 28T cog if positioned carefully. But the other half of the question is how much chain take-up it can do. With, say, a 14-28 FW (not IGH!) and 42-?? rings, maybe. With a smaller BCD crank to run 34T, or with a triple to run 28T, it wouldn't work. Time to start counting teeth...

JohnDThompson 

Not sure about the SunTour tandem freewheel, but on my Atom Tandem freewheel it means four pawls instead of only two.

photogravity

Then, jimmuller, please cease and desist from using FW when you really mean freewheel! Think of what you're doing to the children!

For those of us interested in using FW hubs, the use of it when you are referring to freewheels makes it incredibly difficult to find relevant information on the IGH.

photogravity

Actually, no. I thought I was participating in a thread about Sturmey-Archer FW hubs.

jimmuller 

What's an IGH? My doctor didn't know anything about them.

rootboy 

Itinerant Gear Head

photogravity

And, more importantly, a selective Luddite of sorts.

pastorbobnlnh 

...and one with a great sense of humor and humility especially when realizing the whole SA-FW-IGH verses "freewheel" BF search function dilemma.

jimmuller 

Heatherbike, I do hope you are learning something from all this. 'Cuz otherwise it would all be for naught.

Heatherbikes

Thanks for the link to the tripilizer @ redclovercomponents. The chainrings on the bianchi are big and bigger, so the current set up is difficult, even for my husband who does not have granny gears on any of his bikes. I would like to use the original cranks, but the second chain ring is of no help to me. the arms are 170, but I need 160...sigh.

eschlwc

i fully agree on looks ... but am curious what the smallest chainring one can use with a nuovo record rd with a short cage, given a 52t big ring and a 14-28t freewheel. does anyone know? for proper tension, i'd guess the lower limit is not much smaller than a 42t ring.

jyl

Supposing 53/39/30 triple and 12-26 freewheel, capacity required is (53-30)+(26-12)=37 which is of course larger than the Nuovo Record's listed 28 capacity, but just don't make a habit of riding 30x12 . . .

eschlwc

^ awesome. thanks. that's a helpful equation i didn't know before.

is that equation discussed on sheldon (or here on bf) in detail?

jimmuller 

Probably somewhere. It is really just the difference in front plus the difference in back.

Think of it this way. If you were on the little-little combo (assuming the chain was short enough for the RD to accommodate it) and you shifted to the big-big combo, how much chain would the RD have to give up?

Or conversely, if you were on the big-big combo (assuming the chain was long enough for the RD to accommodate it) and you shifted to the little-little combo, how much chain would the RD have to take up?

It just the amount in front plus the amount in back.

You may decide never to use either extreme combo, but you might always do it accidentally.

jonwvara 

That is correct. I once shifted onto the big-big combo when my chain wasn't long enough to handle it. It was interesting to do once but I would not want to do it again.

jyl

You'd size the chain to handle big/big, and avoid using small/small.

jimmuller 

If you can remember not to do that.

I confess I've hit big-big occasionally when I shifted down in the rear without thinking or shifted up in front when I'd forgotten which cog I was on, but I've never hit little-little. (Of course I use the little cog so infrequently.) Even so, I set up all my bikes to handle both combinations if I do it accidentally. Needless to say, I've got long-cage RD's on them all. Better not to have to worry.

jimmuller 

This may be a dead thread by now but I'll post this followup anyway. I found the cause of the rattle on my Masi. The long cage on the RD has nothing to do with it. The 4 largest cogs on the FreeWheel are free enough to rock forward and back by a mm or so on the FreeWheel carrier. That's causing a bunch of clicking. I've put in a note to Pastor Bob, or resident FreeWheel expert. I've never seen this happen before.

SJX426 

Intersting. I would like to know the findings!

I have had a 28 on my 52/42 with an NR. I avoid the big/big completely. I tried a 30 but just didn't like the risk level based on my age induced memory slips! I do have one of the longer cages for the NR. May have to try it at some point.

cycledog1

very old thread, but thought I'd see if any of you are still monitoring this posting.

just bought an early 80's colnago superissimo and want to put my 1st gen campy rally on it so I can run a 28 or 30 on it comfortably.

the issue on my other vintage ride is the cage hitting the largest freewheel cog, w/no d screw. with the rally, which hasn't been used, will this work with a double crank and appropriate length chain?

the current group is the campy victory, I don't believe I can go any larger than 26 in the rear.

bikemig 

You're better off starting your own thread with pics of the bike and derailleurs (we like pics). The victory should be able to handle a larger freewheel according to the velobase specs, VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo, Victory S3

Happyday

Happy to say I have just completed transplanting some Rally parts to my SR rear derailleur.

My SR derailleur was working good but I wanted to replace a 40T chainring with a 36T one. I learnt from various posts of Bike Forums that a longer Rally cage would have allowed more chain wrap.

With some waiting, and hunting, I have replaced the following:

- the stop pin
- the spring inside the derailleur body
- the cage plates and the jockey wheels

Result:

- still enjoy the SR titanium bolts' lightweight benefit
- wonderfully smooth shift with the new Rally spring
- quite and smooth new pulleys
- a shiny stop pin

The longer cage has allowed me to replace my 40T front chainring with a 36T ring, which has made climbing so much easier.

It was a NOS Rally. When it arrived, it took me two days to accept the look. However, after the transplant, and it particular the test riding, I was satisfied with my project.

In hindsight, it was feasible and much cheaper buying a brand new Rally cage than bit and pieces of the cage plate. Only the Rally cage plates are available on website but not the screws (screws of SR and Rally are not compatible.) . Buying a whole Rally also gives me a new spring and sets of jockey wheels.

Am very happy with the project.