Why do many bicycle manufacturers not list the weights on their bikes?
#51
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Weight is related to enjoyment. I specifically remember having a mid-low tier full suspension trail bike that weighed 32lbs in the early 2010's. Suspension was good, shifting was kinda mushy(shimano deore), and wheels were okay(deore hubs).
A year later or so I ended up getting a used top of the line variant. Full carbon(besides chainstays), internal routing, xt/xtr groupset with a carbon raceface crank, xt+mavic wheels etc 27lbs. It was better. Was it msrp 4-5k better? No, but on the used market it was cheaper then the prior bike I bought new. While being more enjoyable. I found tires mattered more and would have a bigger impact, but a nicer lighter bike was right below that. After that nicer wheels helped too.
Road... I can feel it there but all the bikes are light(to me) and fast so it doesn't bother me much.
I guess I don't really care about listed weight since someone on the internet probably posted it, or at a bike shop I can weigh the bike in person.
A year later or so I ended up getting a used top of the line variant. Full carbon(besides chainstays), internal routing, xt/xtr groupset with a carbon raceface crank, xt+mavic wheels etc 27lbs. It was better. Was it msrp 4-5k better? No, but on the used market it was cheaper then the prior bike I bought new. While being more enjoyable. I found tires mattered more and would have a bigger impact, but a nicer lighter bike was right below that. After that nicer wheels helped too.
Road... I can feel it there but all the bikes are light(to me) and fast so it doesn't bother me much.
I guess I don't really care about listed weight since someone on the internet probably posted it, or at a bike shop I can weigh the bike in person.
#52
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Bike weights no longer listed? They used to be for the described component configuration and frame size (usually a 52 or 53cm). It was a major selling point. Weights should be listed, as apart from fit, as it is the single most important determinant of bike performance. Heavy is cheap and slow, light is expensive and fast.
The reason why weights are no longer listed is obvious: disc brakes, and all of the associated extra ballast. Also, to a lesser extent, aero stuff including wheels. What used to be an elite-level bike circa 2015 with rim brakes (<15 lbs) is now unobtainable with discs at any price. A run of the mill $2,000 road bike in 2015 would come in at 17-18 pounds. Now, you'd have to pay 3 x that to get down to those weights with discs.
For similar reasons, the big vendors no longer offer organized "test ride days", where you could drop your credit card off at the tent and ride a few new bikes. For those of us with enough experience, and with a fleet of pre-pandemic bikes, the results of such a test on 2024 bikes would be both ride disappointment and major sticker shock.
The language on the vendor websites citing their 'inability' to list weights is due to legal butt covering and simple embarrassment as to how porky their current bikes are.
The reason why weights are no longer listed is obvious: disc brakes, and all of the associated extra ballast. Also, to a lesser extent, aero stuff including wheels. What used to be an elite-level bike circa 2015 with rim brakes (<15 lbs) is now unobtainable with discs at any price. A run of the mill $2,000 road bike in 2015 would come in at 17-18 pounds. Now, you'd have to pay 3 x that to get down to those weights with discs.
For similar reasons, the big vendors no longer offer organized "test ride days", where you could drop your credit card off at the tent and ride a few new bikes. For those of us with enough experience, and with a fleet of pre-pandemic bikes, the results of such a test on 2024 bikes would be both ride disappointment and major sticker shock.
The language on the vendor websites citing their 'inability' to list weights is due to legal butt covering and simple embarrassment as to how porky their current bikes are.
#53
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Scott Addict RC 20 here (Rim Brakes). 7.46 Kg
hsea17
hsea17
#54
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hsea17
#55
Senior Member
That is only any good if they all use exactly the same methods (what is/isn't included, what sized frame do they weigh, and so on) and are honest. Otherwise it just rewards the most biggest liar/most misleading brand.
Last edited by staehpj1; 04-01-24 at 06:18 AM.
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I'm sure it delineated well above, but it's simple: 1) They don't want to be prevaricators and 2) they don't want you to know how ponderous their bikes are.
#57
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Even if a company lists way-off weights at least you still get an idea of how that company's models compare against each other
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I think you misunderstood my point. I was pointing out the disclaimer in response to another post. They do what I expect, since the specs could change, for example, mid-year if things like tires change. Updating the website might cause inaccuracy because different speced models with different weights could be on retail floors.
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Constructively argue that weight isn't all that important all you want: cyclists have been voting - with their pocketbooks - for lighter weight for 145 years.
This. I've seen it for 50 years. "Biggest liar wins."
This. I've seen it for 50 years. "Biggest liar wins."
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One would hope the prospect of getting caught with way-off weights by a couple of bike review sites would limit posting way-off weights.
Even if a company lists way-off weights at least you still get an idea of how that company's models compare against each other
Even if a company lists way-off weights at least you still get an idea of how that company's models compare against each other
#61
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But ... we were sold "Lighter is Better" and a lot of us bought it ... and now we compromise an the quality of our riding experiences to have bikes which look good on paper ..... Well, a Little less so now, but there was definitely a stretch of several years when people went crazy to shave grams without ever asking how much it mattered in the physical world ... they were happy to have the mental edge of having drilled holes in every component ....
Cavendish bike 2009-2010
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That explanation makes no sense. Don't you want to know how much the stock bike weighs before you start changing things? Also- basically all bike parts have known, published weights. It makes no sense for bike makers to be coy about the weights.
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The statement above includes the implied assertion that a light bike somehow reduces "the quality of our riding experiences". I reject that implication. I ride a sub-UCI limit bike, and I find no "ride quality" compromises were made for the sake of weight savings. I doubt Mark Cavendish found my bike model lacking, either, as he rode it to ten TdF stage wins.
Cavendish bike 2009-2010
Cavendish bike 2009-2010
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Agreed and many people do ride the stock bike. It is well understood that published bike weights don't include pedals and bottle cages, so those don't matter when comparing bikes.
#66
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Look at the tool batteries I mentioned. They basically just lie. I think DeWalt started it a while back by calling their new 18 volt battery 20 volt nominal.
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That encourages manufacturers to play games with the weights - just like car manufacturers and others do. Look for creative marketing to generate the weights. One manufacturer will weigh without pedals. The next will weigh without a saddle. The next will create an XXS. The next will offer unpainted. Another will offer "sample" tires made out of tissue paper. Forget the valve caps, the grease, the extra cable lengths. I could even imagine a large bike weighed with the seat post and cables from a small bike.
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The statement above includes the implied assertion that a light bike somehow reduces "the quality of our riding experiences". I reject that implication. I ride a sub-UCI limit bike, and I find no "ride quality" compromises were made for the sake of weight savings. I doubt Mark Cavendish found my bike model lacking, either, as he rode it to ten TdF stage wins.
I kilogram difference is significant ... a hundred grams, I would argue, almost becomes noise to the signal of stiffness/ compliance, aero,ease of service, and performance of components ... and genuinely important intangibles like ... "Do I like this bike?"
I recall a thread not long ago with a rider asking is s/he should buy a cheaper model (I believe 10-speed Tiagra vs. 11-105) because he liked the appearance of the Tiagra bike.
In essence this poster asked, "Is one less cog and a little more weight going to ruin my ride? Is one more cog and a little less weight going to outweigh the life-long fact that I am not going to be proud of my gorgeous screaming-red bike, and instead ride a muddy-red two-tone which I find visually unappealing?"
If it had been weight, not color ....
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#70
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They all weigh without pedals (at least high end bikes) because they sell without pedals. I’ve never heard of any weighing without a saddle or quoting the weight for an XXS size, or any of your other imaginary scenarios. How about quoting an example of any of these things?
I remember when moderately priced road bikes broke 20 pounds back around 1990. Don't recall which bike it was, but it had an aluminum frame.
In 1991 my new bike was about 24 pounds.
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They all weigh without pedals (at least high end bikes) because they sell without pedals. I’ve never heard of any weighing without a saddle or quoting the weight for an XXS size, or any of your other imaginary scenarios. How about quoting an example of any of these things?
I don't even bother to think about published bike weights.
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A 20v tool isn't 20 volts. A 34" waist isn't 34 inches. A size 10 dress is vanity sized from what it used to be. A 2x4 doesn't even measure 2, or 4. Ten million in the lottery isn't ten million. I could go on and on if you wanted to talk about bike light lumen output or other examples.
I don't even bother to think about published bike weights.
I don't even bother to think about published bike weights.
#74
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Something special here and as another poster gave information about, Giant Japan listing the weight of the bikes while the rest of Giant's worldwide manufacturers/dealers use a lame excuse and do not.
2024 GIANT Bicycles | TCR ADVANCED 2 KOM
2024 GIANT Bicycles | TCR ADVANCED 2 KOM
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#75
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I'm not going to say it is impossible but I sure as heck tried with my Rodriguez. I used everything from Extralite, Ax-Lightness, Dario, THM, etc...I even built up a sub kilo wheel set. I came in at 16 pounds and like an ounce or so with Time carbon "Racer" pedals, bottle cages, and Garmin mount.
I ride a 7L and did not specify the "ultralight" option. Which in reality is different, lighter rear dropouts to accommodate flat-mount brakes and extra large holes inside the frame at the tubing joins. The total saving at $600 extra expense is about 2 ounces. (I have also learned that Dura-Ace shifters are heavy.)
I'm also 85 kilos and generally stronger than average. I have no doubt that there is an extra bit of material in the chain stays that a smaller, less powerful rider on a size 5S wouldn't need.
It does ride like a rocketship. But even at the bleeding edge, someone as big as me would need something in rim brakes to cross that 15lb threshold in steel. I have ridden their 13 pound display bike. It is possible, but I have my doubts about doing so in disc in "as ridden" form.
I ride a 7L and did not specify the "ultralight" option. Which in reality is different, lighter rear dropouts to accommodate flat-mount brakes and extra large holes inside the frame at the tubing joins. The total saving at $600 extra expense is about 2 ounces. (I have also learned that Dura-Ace shifters are heavy.)
I'm also 85 kilos and generally stronger than average. I have no doubt that there is an extra bit of material in the chain stays that a smaller, less powerful rider on a size 5S wouldn't need.
It does ride like a rocketship. But even at the bleeding edge, someone as big as me would need something in rim brakes to cross that 15lb threshold in steel. I have ridden their 13 pound display bike. It is possible, but I have my doubts about doing so in disc in "as ridden" form.
However, that poster said sub 15 wasn’t achievable for any amount of money with discs. Seems like your components on damn near every carbon road frame in the world would be 14.5. Seems worth mentioning.