Cyclist Blows Thru Stop Sign
#51
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I know damn well when it's safe to run a stop sign or red light. I apply the same risk assessment principles I apply when I approach a yield sign. This isn't thermonuclear physics here. It's basic risk management.
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#52
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If I understand you post correctly I haven't seen anyone advocating for failing to yield right of way. If that is what you are suggesting can you copy and paste some of that content?
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I see a problem.
Pedestrians have right of way. Drivers are supposed to stop and let them cross, but whether they do or not is up to the conscience of the driver.
So when drivers don't stop, pedestrians could get killed.
If they completely got rid of 4 way stops, then pedestrians have to wait until the road is clear of cars before crossing, the roads would be a lot safer for pedestrians, and faster for cars.
If there is a problem for pedestrians crossing, have a bridge over the road, or put in traffic lights.
Pedestrians have right of way. Drivers are supposed to stop and let them cross, but whether they do or not is up to the conscience of the driver.
So when drivers don't stop, pedestrians could get killed.
If they completely got rid of 4 way stops, then pedestrians have to wait until the road is clear of cars before crossing, the roads would be a lot safer for pedestrians, and faster for cars.
If there is a problem for pedestrians crossing, have a bridge over the road, or put in traffic lights.
#54
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However, I should clarify that when I say, "roll thru", I think some people might think I'm making a reference to the Idaho Stop law -- I'm not. I'm talking about the countless cyclists I've witness rolling thru a stop sign without regard to the rules of the road. The Idaho Stop law does not allow cyclists to just roll thru all stop signs. BTW, I am a proponent of the Idaho Stop law.
What's funny (on a slightly different topic) is that some cyclists seem to like to ride in the center of the lane and slow down traffic, then complain how lazy, fat and impatient motorists are, and then complain about pedestrians hogging the MUPs, slowing everyone down
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I'm conflating the remarks in this thread with all the others on the same topic. It seems like when someone highlights a cyclist causing others to brake, they seem to divert the conversation on how dangerous a car is vs. a bike and that the poster is obviously anti-cyclist.
However, I should clarify that when I say, "roll thru", I think some people might think I'm making a reference to the Idaho Stop law -- I'm not. I'm talking about the countless cyclists I've witness rolling thru a stop sign without regard to the rules of the road. The Idaho Stop law does not allow cyclists to just roll thru all stop signs. BTW, I am a proponent of the Idaho Stop law.
What's funny (on a slightly different topic) is that some cyclists seem to like to ride in the center of the lane and slow down traffic, then complain how lazy, fat and impatient motorists are, and then complain about pedestrians hogging the MUPs, slowing everyone down
However, I should clarify that when I say, "roll thru", I think some people might think I'm making a reference to the Idaho Stop law -- I'm not. I'm talking about the countless cyclists I've witness rolling thru a stop sign without regard to the rules of the road. The Idaho Stop law does not allow cyclists to just roll thru all stop signs. BTW, I am a proponent of the Idaho Stop law.
What's funny (on a slightly different topic) is that some cyclists seem to like to ride in the center of the lane and slow down traffic, then complain how lazy, fat and impatient motorists are, and then complain about pedestrians hogging the MUPs, slowing everyone down
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#56
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You say you aren't trolling? I say you are. I don't care what your post tally is. Trolling is as trolling does. You don't find more bikes in one place than in Downtown Portland, OR and I've not seen this 'lane hogging' behavior you are about to make a thing about. Cyclists ride FRAP for the very large part and exceptions woudn't fill the pod of the average Amusement Park ride. The average driver might witness an occurrence like it once in a lifetime. You are way overstating the amount of scofflaw and/or stereotypical bad cyclist behavior you have seen for some reason I don't know. Boredom, possibly. 'Countless' cyclists rolling stop signs is just not a claim I can take seriously.
Maybe you spend too much time in Portland. I've been cycling for over 30-years as my primary form of transportation to work and I was in the navy for 23-years, so I've cycled all over the country where I've been stationed, so what I see here in Jax is not really much different than what I've seen in all the other places I was stationed.
But now we have Youtube and so when I talk about a Thanksgiving ride here in Jax, where the riders were hogging the road, I don't have to post it and hope people believe me, all I need to do is post a link of a similar thing that happened, which I've seen numerous times around the country.
And I could link several other videos, especially in NYC of cyclists blowing lights/signs...but then I'd probably be trolling
Cyclists hogging the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55Wb8exPj3o
.
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Ok. No more trolling accusations. If you see trolling, report it but don’t accuse someone in a post. This only leads to the thread going downhill. If you don’t like a thread, move on but skip posting. Thanks
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We have some large groups that ride the roads where I live and it can be hard to pass them. Worst case was pulling out of my driveway right behind a group that I was stuck behind for the 3.5 miles to the main highway. But it only added a couple minutes to the trip. Usually you're not behind them for more than a mile or so. The roads belong to everyone and sometimes you just have to grin and bear it.
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So that video is not the best example of "hogging the road" because unless that group get together EVERY DAY and do the same thing, the people getting steamed need to get a life. Do you really imagine a group like that could get into single file? Are those 'share the road' signs meant for one, two, or three riders? Is that reasonable for 30? As for cyclists in NYC running lights. I did not say that that is not a thing. What I said was that the riders blowing up the lights were very much aware of the positioning of the cars around them.
#60
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If I wanted to troll, I could come up with a much more toxic thing to post about...
Maybe you spend too much time in Portland. I've been cycling for over 30-years as my primary form of transportation to work and I was in the navy for 23-years, so I've cycled all over the country where I've been stationed, so what I see here in Jax is not really much different than what I've seen in all the other places I was stationed.
But now we have Youtube and so when I talk about a Thanksgiving ride here in Jax, where the riders were hogging the road, I don't have to post it and hope people believe me, all I need to do is post a link of a similar thing that happened, which I've seen numerous times around the country.
And I could link several other videos, especially in NYC of cyclists blowing lights/signs...but then I'd probably be trolling
Cyclists hogging the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55Wb8exPj3o
.
Maybe you spend too much time in Portland. I've been cycling for over 30-years as my primary form of transportation to work and I was in the navy for 23-years, so I've cycled all over the country where I've been stationed, so what I see here in Jax is not really much different than what I've seen in all the other places I was stationed.
But now we have Youtube and so when I talk about a Thanksgiving ride here in Jax, where the riders were hogging the road, I don't have to post it and hope people believe me, all I need to do is post a link of a similar thing that happened, which I've seen numerous times around the country.
And I could link several other videos, especially in NYC of cyclists blowing lights/signs...but then I'd probably be trolling
Cyclists hogging the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55Wb8exPj3o
.
There was some behavior in that clip that I wouldn't engage in. There was also much ado made about nothing.
That road does not have lanes wide enough to safely share with cyclists, so if the cyclists went single file, it would take much longer to pass them than it would if they were bunched up.
When the news crew pulled up beside them to question their behavior, that was unacceptable. Would they likewise challenge the behavior of motorists they thought weren't being courteous.? That's the kind of crap that sends a message that it's okay to shout out the window at cyclists.
It wasn't clear from the clip at the 4 way stop if the lead cyclists failed to yield right of way to the car. If they did, that's wrong. If they didn't, then doesn't it facilitate overall traffic flow if they move through as a single unit as they did?
River Road in Richmond BC is a very short road. I don't know what the speed limit is, but being stuck behind those cyclists can't possibly add much time to her commute. The cyclists were probably averaging 20 MPH. What was the speed limit?
#61
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So that video is not the best example of "hogging the road" because unless that group get together EVERY DAY and do the same thing, the people getting steamed need to get a life. Do you really imagine a group like that could get into single file? Are those 'share the road' signs meant for one, two, or three riders? Is that reasonable for 30?
Not just NYC, but let's say you're right that they are cognizant of cars around them, then why is it that people need to slam on their brakes? If all I saw were cyclists going thru intersections without stopping and didn't cause others to stop, then I'd be pretty amazed and this thread wouldn't have been started.
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OK, then I guess we cyclists need to stop complaining about traffic on all the MUPS. Cyclists are showing the same impatience as those drivers in that video, both on the roads and MUPs. BTW, I'm no different, I got places to be, I don't want to be zigging and zagging around of bunch of pedestrians. But that's why I stay away from MUPs and strictly ride on major roadways.
Not just NYC, but let's say you're right that they are cognizant of cars around them, then why is it that people need to slam on their brakes? If all I saw were cyclists going thru intersections without stopping and didn't cause others to stop, then I'd be pretty amazed and this thread wouldn't have been started.
Which scenario do you want to believe occurs more often: cyclist is hit while flouting the 'rules of the road' OR cyclist is hit while abiding by the 'rules of the road'?
#65
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I too stay away from MUP's, but not because I get impatient around peds. I never zigzag around peds on the rare occasions I find myself stuck behind one. I just tro erm, noodle behind at walking speed until I get a decent passing opportunity, or they take notice of me and move over. It isn't that I don't have places to be, but I accept that cyclists should yield to pedestrians. Behind the wheel of a car (rare) I will not use its power and/or heft to have my way with cyclists on the road either. That doesn't make me better than you, but it demonstrates that I have (and you could) more patience than the average cyclist with our pedestrian counterparts.
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All MUPs are not created equal. There are some in this area that are rife with hazards. There are others that see very little use and no interaction with motor vehicle traffic. I am thankful that we have them, because the roads in the NOLA suburbs are singularly horrible for cycling.
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It is an interesting question of who's fault is it when there's a collision between a cyclist and motorist... This seems to indicate it's basically 50/50, which tells me that cyclists and motorists are two peas in a pod. They both act in the same way, just using a different vehicle.
This is also a very interesting take on cyclists responsibilities, especially with respect to pedestrians. Kind of reminds me of the Food Chain in nature; Snake eats frog; frog eats bug
.
This is also a very interesting take on cyclists responsibilities, especially with respect to pedestrians. Kind of reminds me of the Food Chain in nature; Snake eats frog; frog eats bug
.
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All MUPs are not created equal. There are some in this area that are rife with hazards. There are others that see very little use and no interaction with motor vehicle traffic. I am thankful that we have them, because the roads in the NOLA suburbs are singularly horrible for cycling.
I hate all the MUPs around the DC-area, but there are some exceptions....
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A few bad apples give every cyclist a bad name. There is a rider that has his circuit near where I live. He's in his 50's, fit, trim, in awesome shape and obviously rides a lot. I have had three run-ins with this guy.
The first was at a 4-way stop intersection a couple of year ago when I was on my bike. There were four cars at the intersection. I stop because everyone is trying to figure out who goes next. This guy comes flying up from behind me and blows through the intersection just as one of the cars is entering. He swerves to avoid the car and gives the driver the one finger salute and yells, "F*** you. Watch where you're going!".
The second and third times were both the same. I was driving to the grocery store and he's in the middle of the two lane road (that has a full left turn lane in the middle) riding with another guy and it's pretty busy. Everyone is having to go into the left turn lane to go around this guy. No big deal, I go around, look at the guy with a blank expression and pass. He gives me this nasty sneer.
The last time was the same situation but he was riding side-by-side with another rider on this same road with light traffic and taking up the whole right lane and hugging the left turn lane. Cars are backed up behind these two waiting to go around. When it's my turn I matter of factly state to this guy, "There's not a lot of traffic, can you go single file?".
Oh boy, the guy just totally goes postal. F this and F that. The guy is nuts.
Now, I do the "Idaho" stop also, but when there are cars at an intersection I make eye contact with every motorist. When they acknowledge me and give me the go sign, I go. MOST of the time they let me "cut" through the intersection and I give them a nice wave and silent "thank you" with my lips. To which they acknowledge with a smile...usually.
I don't understand the mentality of riders like this nutty guy. I've been riding on the road since I was 13 so....49 years now. I remember when it really was bad. Folks today have it good even in the worst cities compared to the way it was. If we cyclists want to be treated right by motorists we have to treat them right and obey the rules of the road.
Apologize for the rant but this subject really agitates me.
The first was at a 4-way stop intersection a couple of year ago when I was on my bike. There were four cars at the intersection. I stop because everyone is trying to figure out who goes next. This guy comes flying up from behind me and blows through the intersection just as one of the cars is entering. He swerves to avoid the car and gives the driver the one finger salute and yells, "F*** you. Watch where you're going!".
The second and third times were both the same. I was driving to the grocery store and he's in the middle of the two lane road (that has a full left turn lane in the middle) riding with another guy and it's pretty busy. Everyone is having to go into the left turn lane to go around this guy. No big deal, I go around, look at the guy with a blank expression and pass. He gives me this nasty sneer.
The last time was the same situation but he was riding side-by-side with another rider on this same road with light traffic and taking up the whole right lane and hugging the left turn lane. Cars are backed up behind these two waiting to go around. When it's my turn I matter of factly state to this guy, "There's not a lot of traffic, can you go single file?".
Oh boy, the guy just totally goes postal. F this and F that. The guy is nuts.
Now, I do the "Idaho" stop also, but when there are cars at an intersection I make eye contact with every motorist. When they acknowledge me and give me the go sign, I go. MOST of the time they let me "cut" through the intersection and I give them a nice wave and silent "thank you" with my lips. To which they acknowledge with a smile...usually.
I don't understand the mentality of riders like this nutty guy. I've been riding on the road since I was 13 so....49 years now. I remember when it really was bad. Folks today have it good even in the worst cities compared to the way it was. If we cyclists want to be treated right by motorists we have to treat them right and obey the rules of the road.
Apologize for the rant but this subject really agitates me.
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In 2019 I was touring in ID for a couple of days and had to laugh at myself when I realized I had been coming to complete stops and waited for one red light to change while riding around Wallace one afternoon despite there being almost no traffic. When I tour I am good about obeying local laws. I had simply forgotten about the laws there, in part because most of the trip was in Montana and the previous (first) day in the state I was in areas that did not have traffic control devices.
#71
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I'm always prepared to stop and I always come to an intersection with brakes engaged, but I will roll through if I get to stop sign before other vehicles, kind of like if I were running. Sometimes cars will get to the intersection before me. I always intend to stop, but 25% of the time, the car will wait for me to pass through. It's considerate but it can lead to some confusion.
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I'm always prepared to stop and I always come to an intersection with brakes engaged, but I will roll through if I get to stop sign before other vehicles, kind of like if I were running. Sometimes cars will get to the intersection before me. I always intend to stop, but 25% of the time, the car will wait for me to pass through. It's considerate but it can lead to some confusion.
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I'm always prepared to stop and I always come to an intersection with brakes engaged, but I will roll through if I get to stop sign before other vehicles, kind of like if I were running. Sometimes cars will get to the intersection before me. I always intend to stop, but 25% of the time, the car will wait for me to pass through. It's considerate but it can lead to some confusion.
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4 ways stops are an invention of the devil.... why would anybody even come up with the idea?
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One would think there's limited demand for going the double-hip replacement route, with titanium skull plate accessorizing.
I've had too many close shaves in poor-visibility areas where there aren't perfect sight lines. (In cars, on bikes.) A lifetime of that has taught me to be astoundingly cautious in those situations. Every month or two I experience yet another such spot where some other fool comes "blowing through" with nearly no regard for the fact nobody else can see him there. Honestly, I'm surprised I don't see far more chalk outlines all over the streets, with how frequently that sort of thing is seen.
Last edited by Clyde1820; 01-16-21 at 08:52 AM.
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