Are Drop bars just an illusion for most?
#176
Non omnino gravis
I similarly have zero issues braking from the hoods, under any conditions. But I do wear XXXL gloves, and my thumb-to-pinky span is about 10.5". Grip strength is not an issue. So I'm often more comfortable braking from the hoods due to the small diameter of the drops. My grip isn't as comfortable as on the hoods, which are much larger around.
I'm not saying that the drops aren't safer-- I'm just saying that I've never even once been in a situation where any event occurred that brought me anywhere close to losing my grip on the hoods. My two wrecks early this year, I was still holding the hoods with both hands when I hit the ground.
I'm not saying that the drops aren't safer-- I'm just saying that I've never even once been in a situation where any event occurred that brought me anywhere close to losing my grip on the hoods. My two wrecks early this year, I was still holding the hoods with both hands when I hit the ground.
#177
Senior Member
I don't know if it's my large hands (size 11), mountain biking experience, stable riding position or all of the above combined but I too have no issues having secure braking from the hoods.
I can wrap my thumb around the brifter body in a very similar manner as with the drops position. I've also never lost my grip even when hitting road hazards large enough to ruin the rest of my day. The type which makes something go snap in your neck and you can only turn your head to one side for a couple of days.
I also don't really see the risk all the drop hystericals are proposing. When you hit a pothole/other road hazard the movement vector is more vertical than horizontal. In such an instance if you have a good wrap of the hoods, a balanced position and proper conditioning on the bike (strong yet relaxed), that vertical blow upwards should not cause an issue.
On the other hand if the hit is big enough to cause significant enough deceleration for a competent rider to lose grip on the hoods (or truly sprain a thumb) then that rider is also likely going over the bars in the very near future and the front end of the bike is likely toast.
It's a good thing in Europe we don't faff about riding courses and dogmatic following of riding rules. We typically just ride. Though on group rides it's good to have some rules for signalling, etiquette etc but willy nillying about descent hand position is just silly ya'll. As long as the rider can brake it's ok.
As for drops and drops use I think modern tops are mord ergonomic and better for hand health than the drops as they provide more surface area in a convex form as opposed to the concave in the hooks / many drops.
Modern drop bars are also much more compact than those used in 80's and before. There's no point looking at old time racers and how they rode only drops because that was the only ergonomic aerodynamic position they had was in the drops. Now we have the hoods.
So all that in mind I believe drops should be comfortable (obviously) but most riding should be done at the hoods as that is the middle position with most reach. In very broad strokes, hoods for most typical riding and terrain, tops for climbing and resting and drops for efforts and descents. That way the modern compact drop bar is IMO used to its strengths.
On that vein, if you're able to and do spend most of your time at the drops, you likely have quite a bit of mobility left to move your bars down.
But as has been mentioned here several times already, these things are personal. Some people just really prefer the drops to the hoods. And that's ok.
Personally I prefer reach to drop.
I can wrap my thumb around the brifter body in a very similar manner as with the drops position. I've also never lost my grip even when hitting road hazards large enough to ruin the rest of my day. The type which makes something go snap in your neck and you can only turn your head to one side for a couple of days.
I also don't really see the risk all the drop hystericals are proposing. When you hit a pothole/other road hazard the movement vector is more vertical than horizontal. In such an instance if you have a good wrap of the hoods, a balanced position and proper conditioning on the bike (strong yet relaxed), that vertical blow upwards should not cause an issue.
On the other hand if the hit is big enough to cause significant enough deceleration for a competent rider to lose grip on the hoods (or truly sprain a thumb) then that rider is also likely going over the bars in the very near future and the front end of the bike is likely toast.
It's a good thing in Europe we don't faff about riding courses and dogmatic following of riding rules. We typically just ride. Though on group rides it's good to have some rules for signalling, etiquette etc but willy nillying about descent hand position is just silly ya'll. As long as the rider can brake it's ok.
As for drops and drops use I think modern tops are mord ergonomic and better for hand health than the drops as they provide more surface area in a convex form as opposed to the concave in the hooks / many drops.
Modern drop bars are also much more compact than those used in 80's and before. There's no point looking at old time racers and how they rode only drops because that was the only ergonomic aerodynamic position they had was in the drops. Now we have the hoods.
So all that in mind I believe drops should be comfortable (obviously) but most riding should be done at the hoods as that is the middle position with most reach. In very broad strokes, hoods for most typical riding and terrain, tops for climbing and resting and drops for efforts and descents. That way the modern compact drop bar is IMO used to its strengths.
On that vein, if you're able to and do spend most of your time at the drops, you likely have quite a bit of mobility left to move your bars down.
But as has been mentioned here several times already, these things are personal. Some people just really prefer the drops to the hoods. And that's ok.
Personally I prefer reach to drop.
#178
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,314 Times
in
707 Posts
I similarly have zero issues braking from the hoods, under any conditions. But I do wear XXXL gloves, and my thumb-to-pinky span is about 10.5". Grip strength is not an issue. So I'm often more comfortable braking from the hoods due to the small diameter of the drops. My grip isn't as comfortable as on the hoods, which are much larger around.
I'm not saying that the drops aren't safer-- I'm just saying that I've never even once been in a situation where any event occurred that brought me anywhere close to losing my grip on the hoods. My two wrecks early this year, I was still holding the hoods with both hands when I hit the ground.
I'm not saying that the drops aren't safer-- I'm just saying that I've never even once been in a situation where any event occurred that brought me anywhere close to losing my grip on the hoods. My two wrecks early this year, I was still holding the hoods with both hands when I hit the ground.
No one said one was better then the other. Just that with modern design, especially with disc, and more so with hydraulics, it's possible for a rider to stop either way safely.
It's funny but predictable in a general internet forum that some would rhetorically insist a position is wrong without really knowing what that position is.
I have drops,
I use drops,
I very intentionally swapped bars and adjusted levers so I could brake from the drops,
but I also recognize it's far easier and safer to brake from the hoods now, with modern levers, so that the issue is mostly mute or perhaps.. personal choice.
The ongoing success and popularity of current hood - centric lever design seems to bear this out as there would probably be a backlash if many people were crashing because that that system did not work.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 09-05-19 at 12:41 AM.
#179
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Your wish is my command.
These are the mechanical disc version of the Taigra ST4700 groupset. The hydraulic version would be even easier to apply and require less finger reach and/or strength.
Drops.
Notice the thumb wrap around and how the palm sits on the bar only because these are shallow flared bars that create an even more advantageous hold compared to traditional drops. Contrast to the hoods.
Hoods.
Notice the same thumb wrap around and secure grip.
...and another angle
which is surprisingly similar to this stable position
A shot of the bike to show bar orientation and seat/bar height
To contrast with older drop bar / lever positions.
Notice the lack of security when I need to stretch to activate the brake. I'm holding on by the hook of my thumb only. This (I assume) is what cyclocommute was referring to when he mentioned stretching the thumb and risky it coming off.
Yet how an old time rider might consider hoods to be even more risky
These are the mechanical disc version of the Taigra ST4700 groupset. The hydraulic version would be even easier to apply and require less finger reach and/or strength.
Drops.
Notice the thumb wrap around and how the palm sits on the bar only because these are shallow flared bars that create an even more advantageous hold compared to traditional drops. Contrast to the hoods.
Hoods.
Notice the same thumb wrap around and secure grip.
...and another angle
which is surprisingly similar to this stable position
A shot of the bike to show bar orientation and seat/bar height
To contrast with older drop bar / lever positions.
Notice the lack of security when I need to stretch to activate the brake. I'm holding on by the hook of my thumb only. This (I assume) is what cyclocommute was referring to when he mentioned stretching the thumb and risky it coming off.
Yet how an old time rider might consider hoods to be even more risky
I'm kidding.
#180
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,857
Bikes: Road bike, Hybrid, Gravel, Drop bar SS, hard tail MTB
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1218 Post(s)
Liked 298 Times
in
214 Posts
one way you will stop with brakes via hands in the drops, the other way includes the possibility of you stopping by sliding to a stop on the ground, because your grip was compromised on the descent when you hit something.
You continue to ignore this about the hoods vs drops braking, and at this point in time it has to be intentional. You will argue that you have grip, then turn it into you can brake. When it never was about braking.
You continue to ignore this about the hoods vs drops braking, and at this point in time it has to be intentional. You will argue that you have grip, then turn it into you can brake. When it never was about braking.
#181
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,794
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Liked 326 Times
in
204 Posts
The lever in the picture is a 4700 series Tiagra lever, as you suggested.
I rated it 90% braking ability because I can lift the rear wheel with one finger on decline. I cannot do it on flat ground with one finger, so 90% for one, 100% for two. I cannot lift my rear wheel with any braking from the hoods - as I have noted with most riders.
I rated it 90% braking ability because I can lift the rear wheel with one finger on decline. I cannot do it on flat ground with one finger, so 90% for one, 100% for two. I cannot lift my rear wheel with any braking from the hoods - as I have noted with most riders.
Perhaps you should try disc breaks? I can lock up either wheel quite easily from my hoods.
#182
Senior Member
I am over 95% drops except on really long rides where I start to move around. I instinctively go to the drops as my default when something is coming. It is the best comfortable position for me for control and braking. If you can't use the drops or hoods and can't reach shifters or brakes from one or the other then try different bars with a different shape, or don't.
Last edited by u235; 09-05-19 at 07:03 AM.
#183
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,366
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,220 Times
in
2,367 Posts
The thumb wraps around the hood as well as it wraps around the bar (when riding in the drops). Failing to hold on to the hoods is no more likely when braking from the hoods.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#184
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,366
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,220 Times
in
2,367 Posts
It's not any more risky than hyper-extending the thumb and hand to brake. And, if you had taken the picture from the same perspective as the STI shifter, I doubt that the hand would have looked any different.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#185
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,249
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18422 Post(s)
Liked 15,570 Times
in
7,335 Posts
Despite mostly hood riding even while bombing down mountain roads on a fully loaded touring bike I have never taken a spill. Why not? Because I have a good grip on reality.
#186
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,366
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,220 Times
in
2,367 Posts
Any idiot that would put 3 fingers between a lever and the bar deserves the pinched fingers that are going to result.
What do you base the "moderate[ly] secure grip" and the braking ability on. That is a very secure grip and the fingers on the lever can generate as much force as if the hand were oriented differently. That's essentially the same grip as you'd get on a mountain bike bar. Your hand isn't going to bounce off or let got or slip unless you aren't paying attention.
Same mountain bike type grip like on older mountain bike levers with 3 or 4 finger blades. And, again, how is the hand going to slip off?
The only advantage this has over your first picture is that it avoids pinched fingers. But, again, how to you measure braking ability?
It's the same grip you complained about above with only 2 fingers and the thumb wrapping the bar. If your hand can slip from with 2 fingers and a thumb holding the hoods, they can just as easily slip when holding the bar. Both scenarios are the same.
No, just your opinion. At what point do you think braking from the hoods becomes dangerous? 5mph? 15mph? 20? 45? 49.556? I don't always brake from the hoods but I suspect you don't always brake from the drops either. On the other hand, I have been able to brake successfully and safely from the hoods at stupid speeds with a loaded touring bike and have done it for 40 years. It might fail me one day but it hasn't so far and I really doubt it will in the future.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#187
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,111
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3432 Post(s)
Liked 3,567 Times
in
1,793 Posts
You've been fortunate that your poor descending technique has not caused a crash. So far.
#188
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,366
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,220 Times
in
2,367 Posts
I don't know if it's my large hands (size 11), mountain biking experience, stable riding position or all of the above combined but I too have no issues having secure braking from the hoods.
I can wrap my thumb around the brifter body in a very similar manner as with the drops position. I've also never lost my grip even when hitting road hazards large enough to ruin the rest of my day. The type which makes something go snap in your neck and you can only turn your head to one side for a couple of days.
I also don't really see the risk all the drop hystericals are proposing. When you hit a pothole/other road hazard the movement vector is more vertical than horizontal. In such an instance if you have a good wrap of the hoods, a balanced position and proper conditioning on the bike (strong yet relaxed), that vertical blow upwards should not cause an issue.
On the other hand if the hit is big enough to cause significant enough deceleration for a competent rider to lose grip on the hoods (or truly sprain a thumb) then that rider is also likely going over the bars in the very near future and the front end of the bike is likely toast.
It's a good thing in Europe we don't faff about riding courses and dogmatic following of riding rules. We typically just ride. Though on group rides it's good to have some rules for signalling, etiquette etc but willy nillying about descent hand position is just silly ya'll. As long as the rider can brake it's ok.
As for drops and drops use I think modern tops are mord ergonomic and better for hand health than the drops as they provide more surface area in a convex form as opposed to the concave in the hooks / many drops.
Modern drop bars are also much more compact than those used in 80's and before. There's no point looking at old time racers and how they rode only drops because that was the only ergonomic aerodynamic position they had was in the drops. Now we have the hoods.
So all that in mind I believe drops should be comfortable (obviously) but most riding should be done at the hoods as that is the middle position with most reach. In very broad strokes, hoods for most typical riding and terrain, tops for climbing and resting and drops for efforts and descents. That way the modern compact drop bar is IMO used to its strengths.
On that vein, if you're able to and do spend most of your time at the drops, you likely have quite a bit of mobility left to move your bars down.
But as has been mentioned here several times already, these things are personal. Some people just really prefer the drops to the hoods. And that's ok.
Personally I prefer reach to drop.
I can wrap my thumb around the brifter body in a very similar manner as with the drops position. I've also never lost my grip even when hitting road hazards large enough to ruin the rest of my day. The type which makes something go snap in your neck and you can only turn your head to one side for a couple of days.
I also don't really see the risk all the drop hystericals are proposing. When you hit a pothole/other road hazard the movement vector is more vertical than horizontal. In such an instance if you have a good wrap of the hoods, a balanced position and proper conditioning on the bike (strong yet relaxed), that vertical blow upwards should not cause an issue.
On the other hand if the hit is big enough to cause significant enough deceleration for a competent rider to lose grip on the hoods (or truly sprain a thumb) then that rider is also likely going over the bars in the very near future and the front end of the bike is likely toast.
It's a good thing in Europe we don't faff about riding courses and dogmatic following of riding rules. We typically just ride. Though on group rides it's good to have some rules for signalling, etiquette etc but willy nillying about descent hand position is just silly ya'll. As long as the rider can brake it's ok.
As for drops and drops use I think modern tops are mord ergonomic and better for hand health than the drops as they provide more surface area in a convex form as opposed to the concave in the hooks / many drops.
Modern drop bars are also much more compact than those used in 80's and before. There's no point looking at old time racers and how they rode only drops because that was the only ergonomic aerodynamic position they had was in the drops. Now we have the hoods.
So all that in mind I believe drops should be comfortable (obviously) but most riding should be done at the hoods as that is the middle position with most reach. In very broad strokes, hoods for most typical riding and terrain, tops for climbing and resting and drops for efforts and descents. That way the modern compact drop bar is IMO used to its strengths.
On that vein, if you're able to and do spend most of your time at the drops, you likely have quite a bit of mobility left to move your bars down.
But as has been mentioned here several times already, these things are personal. Some people just really prefer the drops to the hoods. And that's ok.
Personally I prefer reach to drop.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#189
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,366
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,220 Times
in
2,367 Posts
one way you will stop with brakes via hands in the drops, the other way includes the possibility of you stopping by sliding to a stop on the ground, because your grip was compromised on the descent when you hit something.
You continue to ignore this about the hoods vs drops braking, and at this point in time it has to be intentional. You will argue that you have grip, then turn it into you can brake. When it never was about braking.
You continue to ignore this about the hoods vs drops braking, and at this point in time it has to be intentional. You will argue that you have grip, then turn it into you can brake. When it never was about braking.
I have a life time of experience in mountain riding that includes uncountable hours...yes, hours...of fast downhills. I've come across a lot of holes, rumble strips, and other obstacles in my path. I haven't been able to dodge all of them so I've hit a few. 99% of my time is spent on the hoods and I don't even think about my grip on them. Nor do I even consider the possibility that my hands might slip. It's not an issue.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#191
Very Slow Rider
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: E Wa
Posts: 1,274
Bikes: Jones Plus LWB, 1983 Centurion Japanese CrMo bike
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked 132 Times
in
101 Posts
Not to add complexity to the discussion but have you researched Jones Bikes handlebars? I don't have 1st hand experience with them but they claim to have MORE hand positions than drops (wide, narrorow, relaxed, aero, depending on how much you have taped) and they do have more mounting positions for lights and computers. Worth looking in to. They're a little unorthodox looking.
#192
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,366
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,220 Times
in
2,367 Posts
I can't speak entirely for indyfabz but for myself I also have lighter bikes that I ride the same way. It's never been a problem and won't be a problem in the future.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#193
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,857
Bikes: Road bike, Hybrid, Gravel, Drop bar SS, hard tail MTB
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1218 Post(s)
Liked 298 Times
in
214 Posts
We ignore it because it isn't true. In 40 years of riding...about half mountain and about half road...I've never gone over the bars or crashed on a road bike because I lost my grip. I'm not that dumb or uncoordinated. I've crashed because of ice or gravel but never because I lost my grip. I've only crashed once because I lost my grip but that was on a mountain bike and coming off a jump...very different dynamics.
I have a life time of experience in mountain riding that includes uncountable hours...yes, hours...of fast downhills. I've come across a lot of holes, rumble strips, and other obstacles in my path. I haven't been able to dodge all of them so I've hit a few. 99% of my time is spent on the hoods and I don't even think about my grip on them. Nor do I even consider the possibility that my hands might slip. It's not an issue.
I have a life time of experience in mountain riding that includes uncountable hours...yes, hours...of fast downhills. I've come across a lot of holes, rumble strips, and other obstacles in my path. I haven't been able to dodge all of them so I've hit a few. 99% of my time is spent on the hoods and I don't even think about my grip on them. Nor do I even consider the possibility that my hands might slip. It's not an issue.
just because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't make the grips equal.
#194
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,111
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3432 Post(s)
Liked 3,567 Times
in
1,793 Posts
As long as people continue to promote poor cycling technique in an open forum, I most definitely am not going to give it a rest.
I've lost one too many friends to inadequate descending skills.
Descend in the drops, people!
I've lost one too many friends to inadequate descending skills.
Descend in the drops, people!
Last edited by terrymorse; 09-11-19 at 09:10 AM. Reason: fixed grammar
#195
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,366
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,220 Times
in
2,367 Posts
Okay, provide the number of people who has crashed because they were using the hoods. While you are at it, find out how many people have crashed while using the drops. I doubt you'll find much on either because it isn't an issue.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#196
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,210
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2762 Post(s)
Liked 2,537 Times
in
1,433 Posts
The
Your point is not being ignored so much as it is being disagreed with.
No how, no way, my hands are sliding off the hoods from an impact. Only way my hands are coming off the hoods (or drops) is when I let go because I am headed over the bars.
Here is a pic of my hoods
I am NOT going to be sliding off the front of those. My thumb and the crotch of my palm would have to go up and over those horns (which can’t really happen unless I open my grip)
If you are having the problems you speak of on the hoods when you hit bumps, then it sounds like you are riding too stiff-armed, and need to learn to relax your arms and let them absorb the impacts. You also might want to look at how you’re holding your hoods.
one way you will stop with brakes via hands in the drops, the other way includes the possibility of you stopping by sliding to a stop on the ground, because your grip was compromised on the descent when you hit something.
You continue to ignore this about the hoods vs drops braking, and at this point in time it has to be intentional. You will argue that you have grip, then turn it into you can brake. When it never was about braking.
You continue to ignore this about the hoods vs drops braking, and at this point in time it has to be intentional. You will argue that you have grip, then turn it into you can brake. When it never was about braking.
No how, no way, my hands are sliding off the hoods from an impact. Only way my hands are coming off the hoods (or drops) is when I let go because I am headed over the bars.
Here is a pic of my hoods
I am NOT going to be sliding off the front of those. My thumb and the crotch of my palm would have to go up and over those horns (which can’t really happen unless I open my grip)
If you are having the problems you speak of on the hoods when you hit bumps, then it sounds like you are riding too stiff-armed, and need to learn to relax your arms and let them absorb the impacts. You also might want to look at how you’re holding your hoods.
Last edited by Kapusta; 09-05-19 at 08:34 AM.
Likes For Kapusta:
#197
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,366
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,220 Times
in
2,367 Posts
So these "friends" you've lost, was it because they were on the hoods? Or was it for other reasons? Since they were "lost", did their spirits come back on Christmas Eve and say "don't descend on the hoods!" in a spooky voice?
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Likes For cyccommute:
#198
Dirty Heathen
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: MC-778, 6250 fsw
Posts: 2,182
Bikes: 1997 Cannondale, 1976 Bridgestone, 1998 SoftRide, 1989 Klein, 1989 Black Lightning #0033
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 889 Post(s)
Liked 906 Times
in
534 Posts
Also agreed with the above. The whole 'your hands will fly off the bars' if you hit a bump is pretty Nervous Nelly stuff.
The idea that you have to hit every pothole because you can't deviate from The Line also seems to indicate a locked-out riding style or lack of faith in one's bike handling skills.
Maybe it's because i'm a Dirty Heathen(tm) I don't always keep a superhuman grip on the bars, tend to ride in a semi-flexed posture in the fast, rough stuff, and, on occasion, when faced with a potentially destabilizing obstacle like a pothole or bridge joint that i'm too close and to fast to go around, I bunny-hop it.
Yes, on the road bike. I might be 'obese', but my bike is half catapult, so: Sproing!, B!itche$!
Btw, this thread is getting up there with the 'Downtube Shifters Should Make A Comeback' thread for pure preposterousness.
Likes For Ironfish653:
#199
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,366
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,220 Times
in
2,367 Posts
Hadn't thought of that. Maybe that's the problem...projecting their poor technique onto to others.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#200
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,111
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3432 Post(s)
Liked 3,567 Times
in
1,793 Posts
He often descended on the hoods, he tended to carry too much tension in his arms, and he put too much weight on his saddle. Three bad practices.
"In addition to lowering your center of gravity, riding on the drops will give you much greater control over the bikes handling thanks to better grip and less chance of your hands slipping if you hit a pothole or bump in the road."
— Pro Tips: How to Descend on a Road Bike