Wincing every time a car passes...
10-24-12, 01:17 PM
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,004
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2502 Post(s)
Liked 745 Times
in
526 Posts
I think you're overestimating what two feet is. Two feet out from the curb would put me just outside the shoulder on most roads in my area. If I want to discourage drivers from squeezing me out, I move over another foot into the right tire track. This is not hogging the lane, and actually gets fewer close passes from motorists. Hogging the lane would be riding in the center, or in the left tire track.
Most lanes these days are at least 12 feet wide. Add a two foot shoulder to that and you still have 10 feet. The average width of a car is about six feet. So that means I can ride on the shoulder line and the average car would be able to pass me safely and not have to cross the center line.
To the OP: don't listen to Leisesturm. He/she comes across as someone who doesn't ride on the roads much.
Most lanes these days are at least 12 feet wide. Add a two foot shoulder to that and you still have 10 feet. The average width of a car is about six feet. So that means I can ride on the shoulder line and the average car would be able to pass me safely and not have to cross the center line.
To the OP: don't listen to Leisesturm. He/she comes across as someone who doesn't ride on the roads much.
H
10-24-12, 01:47 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
So you dodge in an out of traffic, while riding in the door zone? That's just crazy. NY state law explicitly calls out as far right as practical. If you're constantly jumping 2-3 feet to your left every time a door opens, that's not practical, and it's def. not safe. One door you miss, or one car that misses your swerve, or is passing you right when the door is opening, giving you no option but to panic break, and you are in an accident.
H
There used to be a time in American history when ALL traffic traveled at a "sedate" pace. Sadly, that changed with the introduction of the automobile.
Did you know that the automobile industry engaged in a publicity campaign likening people who wanted to walk or play in the road as being "stuck" in the past as well as out of touch with reality.
The same shift takes place when too many people get behind the wheel of their car(s). As for some reason too many of them think that they think that they "own" the road.
10-24-12, 01:52 PM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,004
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2502 Post(s)
Liked 745 Times
in
526 Posts
I think that you would be surprised at the speeds that some cyclists are able to maintain. For example, I ride a bike that weighs about 35 , 40lbs, I carry another 35 or so pounds of cargo. On top of that I weigh about 180lbs. So bike, cargo, myself I'm "carrying" about 250lbs. And I am able to maintain a speed in the high teens to low twentys.
That "cyclist" is clearly wrong, although, if I am not mistaken. Most states require slower vehicles to yield to "faster" traffic when there are five or more vehicles behind the, PROVIDED that it is safe to do so.
If I'm reading you correctly, it sounds as if you are riding erratically and not predictably, a lose/lose situation. Which by taking the lane we ARE in fact riding predictably, and therefore we are riding safely, a win/win situation.
Cars only "lose" time in the sense that sadly most people these days do not leave enough time when going somewhere. Plus the automobile industry has "brainwashed" people into thinking that "faster is better." It is not, if it were then there wouldn't be so many crashes, or lived lost on the roads.
Again, as had been said, when we ride confidently and predictably, we are riding safely, and are treated with respect and as equals, and like we belong on the road.
On the other hand, when we do not ride with confidence, or predictably then we endanger EVERYONE on the road.
And yes, as you said OMMV, but in not only my experience, but that of others here, and people that I personally know, taking the lane is the safest, most predictable to ride.
That "cyclist" is clearly wrong, although, if I am not mistaken. Most states require slower vehicles to yield to "faster" traffic when there are five or more vehicles behind the, PROVIDED that it is safe to do so.
If I'm reading you correctly, it sounds as if you are riding erratically and not predictably, a lose/lose situation. Which by taking the lane we ARE in fact riding predictably, and therefore we are riding safely, a win/win situation.
Cars only "lose" time in the sense that sadly most people these days do not leave enough time when going somewhere. Plus the automobile industry has "brainwashed" people into thinking that "faster is better." It is not, if it were then there wouldn't be so many crashes, or lived lost on the roads.
Again, as had been said, when we ride confidently and predictably, we are riding safely, and are treated with respect and as equals, and like we belong on the road.
On the other hand, when we do not ride with confidence, or predictably then we endanger EVERYONE on the road.
And yes, as you said OMMV, but in not only my experience, but that of others here, and people that I personally know, taking the lane is the safest, most predictable to ride.
H
10-24-12, 02:03 PM
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I think you're overestimating what two feet is. Two feet out from the curb would put me just outside the shoulder on most roads in my area. If I want to discourage drivers from squeezing me out, I move over another foot into the right tire track. This is not hogging the lane, and actually gets fewer close passes from motorists. Hogging the lane would be riding in the center, or in the left tire track.
Most lanes these days are at least 12 feet wide. Add a two foot shoulder to that and you still have 10 feet. The average width of a car is about six feet. So that means I can ride on the shoulder line and the average car would be able to pass me safely and not have to cross the center line.
To the OP: don't listen to Leisesturm. He/she comes across as someone who doesn't ride on the roads much.
Most lanes these days are at least 12 feet wide. Add a two foot shoulder to that and you still have 10 feet. The average width of a car is about six feet. So that means I can ride on the shoulder line and the average car would be able to pass me safely and not have to cross the center line.
To the OP: don't listen to Leisesturm. He/she comes across as someone who doesn't ride on the roads much.
H
I also have four taillights three that are mounted on my bike and the fourth is mounted on my helmet.
Six out of the seven are on whenever I'm out riding. The one on my helmet is used at night.
I also wear an orange, and reflective safety vest when I ride.
10-24-12, 02:27 PM
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,004
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2502 Post(s)
Liked 745 Times
in
526 Posts
It may be dangerous advice [Edit: its not advice], but, in general when there is a bike lane, drivers expect you to use it. So.... if the bike lanes in your town run to the left of the parked cars what do YOU do? I'll hang around for the answer.
10-24-12, 02:29 PM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Agreed, 100%, yes sadly too many cyclists ride in the door zone. Many get away with but that doesn't make it safe.
10-24-12, 02:31 PM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Rochester MN
Posts: 927
Bikes: Raleigh Port Townsend, Raleigh Tourist
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
8 Posts
Not knowing how experienced you are I would recommend working on increasing your comfort level. Most riders have a comfort level for traffic and don't like going beyond that traffic volume/speed. Start with roads where you are comfortable and keep looking for roads that are a little faster or have more traffic until you get to where you start feeling uncomfortable about the traffic. Stay at that level for a couple of weeks and you should start getting comfortable with it and then move to a busier/faster road and repeat.
10-24-12, 02:32 PM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Drivers expect many things, because drivers are individuals. Reasonable individuals expect others to operate their vehicles in a safe, legal, respectful fashion, and that's what I do. Riding in the door zone is not safe.
10-24-12, 02:37 PM
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,004
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2502 Post(s)
Liked 745 Times
in
526 Posts
How are bright lights "over the top?" On my bike I have five headlights. Four mounted to the bike, and one on my helmet. The ones on my bike are set to blink.
I also have four taillights three that are mounted on my bike and the fourth is mounted on my helmet.
Six out of the seven are on whenever I'm out riding. The one on my helmet is used at night.
I also wear an orange, and reflective safety vest when I ride.
I also have four taillights three that are mounted on my bike and the fourth is mounted on my helmet.
Six out of the seven are on whenever I'm out riding. The one on my helmet is used at night.
I also wear an orange, and reflective safety vest when I ride.
H
10-24-12, 02:44 PM
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280
Bikes: Nashbar Road
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
228 Posts
Can I agree with everyone? Sometimes I think everyone is saying the same thing different ways, with nuances blown out of proportion.
10-24-12, 02:46 PM
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
It may be dangerous advice [Edit: its not advice], but, in general when there is a bike lane, drivers expect you to use it. So.... if the bike lanes in your town run to the left of the parked cars what do YOU do? I'll hang around for the answer.
And as had been said you are in fact giving out dangerous advice.
If how a great many of us ride is so "dangerous" as well as being "rude, and inconsiderate" then how do you explain all of the posts that contradict you?
10-24-12, 02:48 PM
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Drivers expect many things, because drivers are individuals. Reasonable individuals expect others to operate their vehicles in a safe, legal, respectful fashion, and that's what I do. Riding in the door zone is not safe.
10-24-12, 02:52 PM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
How are bright lights "over the top?" On my bike I have five headlights. Four mounted to the bike, and one on my helmet. The ones on my bike are set to blink.
I also have four taillights three that are mounted on my bike and the fourth is mounted on my helmet.
Six out of the seven are on whenever I'm out riding. The one on my helmet is used at night.
I also wear an orange, and reflective safety vest when I ride.
I also have four taillights three that are mounted on my bike and the fourth is mounted on my helmet.
Six out of the seven are on whenever I'm out riding. The one on my helmet is used at night.
I also wear an orange, and reflective safety vest when I ride.
H
10-24-12, 03:06 PM
#65
Banned.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
What utter tripe. You lack a firm grasp of history. People were getting run over and killed by carriages and horses long before the invention of the automobile. Before spouting, you might want to actually read some of the 18th or 19th century primary documents (newspapers, letters, etc...)
10-24-12, 03:07 PM
#66
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Not knowing how experienced you are I would recommend working on increasing your comfort level. Most riders have a comfort level for traffic and don't like going beyond that traffic volume/speed. Start with roads where you are comfortable and keep looking for roads that are a little faster or have more traffic until you get to where you start feeling uncomfortable about the traffic. Stay at that level for a couple of weeks and you should start getting comfortable with it and then move to a busier/faster road and repeat.
Thank you. There is another girl that takes this same route around the same time that I'd have to leave to get to my MWF class. She uses the sidewalk.
I commuted via this route for two weeks and this week I've been driving. The road is very busy so taking the lane as far as some have suggested would be quite rude. When I'm driving on it, I can see just how hard it is to pass a bike. There's almost always another car coming in the opposite direction. It's a very busy street. I think I will drive the other route tomorrow and see how it looks as far as the crime. I might just end up riding it although it will add an extra mile.
Oh and for clarification, the two-lane road in the OP doesn't have a curb or even a line on the right, and no one parks on this road (they would be in the grass if they even tried).
10-24-12, 03:10 PM
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2953 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
I think this is the best advice! Thank you.
There is another girl that takes this same route around the same time that I'd have to leave to get to my MWF class. She uses the sidewalk.
I commuted via this route for two weeks and this week I've been driving. The road is very busy so taking the lane as far as some have suggested would be quite rude. When I'm driving on it, I can see just how hard it is to pass a bike. There's almost always another car coming in the opposite direction. It's a very busy street. I think I will drive the other route tomorrow and see how it looks as far as the crime. I might just end up riding it although it will add an extra mile.
Oh and for clarification, the two-lane road in the OP doesn't have a curb or even a line on the right, and no one parks on this road (they would be in the grass if they even tried).
Thank you. There is another girl that takes this same route around the same time that I'd have to leave to get to my MWF class. She uses the sidewalk.
I commuted via this route for two weeks and this week I've been driving. The road is very busy so taking the lane as far as some have suggested would be quite rude. When I'm driving on it, I can see just how hard it is to pass a bike. There's almost always another car coming in the opposite direction. It's a very busy street. I think I will drive the other route tomorrow and see how it looks as far as the crime. I might just end up riding it although it will add an extra mile.
Oh and for clarification, the two-lane road in the OP doesn't have a curb or even a line on the right, and no one parks on this road (they would be in the grass if they even tried).
10-24-12, 03:34 PM
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 379
Bikes: SR, Bianchi, Raleigh, Bertin, Kona, Schwinn, Eisentraut, Zunow, Columbine, Naked, Nishiki, Phillips, Specialized, Giant
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I think this is the best advice! Thank you.
There is another girl that takes this same route around the same time that I'd have to leave to get to my MWF class. She uses the sidewalk.
I commuted via this route for two weeks and this week I've been driving. The road is very busy so taking the lane as far as some have suggested would be quite rude. When I'm driving on it, I can see just how hard it is to pass a bike. There's almost always another car coming in the opposite direction. It's a very busy street. I think I will drive the other route tomorrow and see how it looks as far as the crime. I might just end up riding it although it will add an extra mile.
Oh and for clarification, the two-lane road in the OP doesn't have a curb or even a line on the right, and no one parks on this road (they would be in the grass if they even tried).
Thank you. There is another girl that takes this same route around the same time that I'd have to leave to get to my MWF class. She uses the sidewalk.
I commuted via this route for two weeks and this week I've been driving. The road is very busy so taking the lane as far as some have suggested would be quite rude. When I'm driving on it, I can see just how hard it is to pass a bike. There's almost always another car coming in the opposite direction. It's a very busy street. I think I will drive the other route tomorrow and see how it looks as far as the crime. I might just end up riding it although it will add an extra mile.
Oh and for clarification, the two-lane road in the OP doesn't have a curb or even a line on the right, and no one parks on this road (they would be in the grass if they even tried).
10-24-12, 03:39 PM
#70
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
When using the public roadway, you should only consider yourself "rude" if you are breaking a law. You have a right to travel (your destination is no less important than anyone else), and if you began to obstruct "X" number of vehicles behind you, then you would follow rules for slow-moving-vehicles in your state, and pull over at the first safe turn-out. This is being courteous and responsible... not rude. Try it sometime; it works!
Didn't realize the can of worms I was opening with this thread...
Now I'll have to post in Advocacy and Safety if I have any similar questions.
10-24-12, 03:43 PM
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2953 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
I would definitely be holding up traffic. This road is in an older part of town and I have a feeling it's not 12' wide just comparing it to another road that just got updated and is a few feet wider. There are plenty of cross streets that I can stop at once in a while (or driveways that I can slow down and pull over onto). I'll have to check the bike laws. Thanks!
Didn't realize the can of worms I was opening with this thread... Now I'll have to post in Advocacy and Safety if I have any similar questions.
Didn't realize the can of worms I was opening with this thread...
Now I'll have to post in Advocacy and Safety if I have any similar questions.
10-24-12, 04:07 PM
#72
Shimano Certified
Well said. I know not all cities are setup the same, but Lancaster has no bike lanes to speak of so that is a non factor. The speed limit other than highways(which are labelled motor-only) are 25mph within city limits. for a mostly flat city with one-way roads 25mph is actually very doable. What is funny is that the time driven traffic lights are actually set for 19-21mph to hit greens. When I figured that out it really levelled out how I drive both car and bike.
Since I maintain traffic pace and often excede it, city limits are the fun part of my 10 mi commute. Sometimes people get arrogant about it, but ultimately they are the same if I am driving my SUV or the bike, but the bike allows me to get around better when people grid-lock
On the mirror/no mirror topic:
I have a mirror on one bike and not the other(just because I only have one right now) and the mindset is a little different than mentioned. It is not to know to "Dodge" away, in my view. For me it is more of just avoiding a surprise or knowing when I can make a turn more conveniently. It reduces the flinch factor a little bit, but nerve comes with conviction and practice. Know your areas regs, systems and stand by them. A confident road user gains more respect than a feeble edge rider. If you ride like you are a child people will view with condescension and apprehension instead of respect because they will wonder if you will be random.
Since I maintain traffic pace and often excede it, city limits are the fun part of my 10 mi commute. Sometimes people get arrogant about it, but ultimately they are the same if I am driving my SUV or the bike, but the bike allows me to get around better when people grid-lock
On the mirror/no mirror topic:
I have a mirror on one bike and not the other(just because I only have one right now) and the mindset is a little different than mentioned. It is not to know to "Dodge" away, in my view. For me it is more of just avoiding a surprise or knowing when I can make a turn more conveniently. It reduces the flinch factor a little bit, but nerve comes with conviction and practice. Know your areas regs, systems and stand by them. A confident road user gains more respect than a feeble edge rider. If you ride like you are a child people will view with condescension and apprehension instead of respect because they will wonder if you will be random.
10-24-12, 04:49 PM
#73
Tractorlegs
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 3,185
Bikes: Schwinn Meridian Single-Speed Tricycle
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times
in
42 Posts
Oh my no . . . A&S is a vicious group of people lol and what you just experienced with this thread ain't nuthin' compared to the flame wars that are over there. The friendliest places on BF are here (Commuting), the Clydesdale/Athena forum, and 50+ - - If you say "Hi" in the Advocacy forum you will start a hundred page three year flame war hahahahaha
__________________
********************************
Trikeman
Trikeman
10-24-12, 06:15 PM
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Logan, QLD ,Australia
Posts: 784
Bikes: Trek 4300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Oh my no . . . A&S is a vicious group of people lol and what you just experienced with this thread ain't nuthin' compared to the flame wars that are over there. The friendliest places on BF are here (Commuting), the Clydesdale/Athena forum, and 50+ - - If you say "Hi" in the Advocacy forum you will start a hundred page three year flame war hahahahaha
even if you don't qualify for the Clyd/athena section i would ask questions there anyway... just shove a pillow under you shirt for any photos .
way more friendly in there
10-24-12, 07:01 PM
#75
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 328
Bikes: Trek 9th District, CAAD 10, Crux
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts