More gasoline on the fire - Electronic Shifting
02-18-23, 05:54 AM
#26
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Hogwash on the 15% increase in weight.
My SRAM Red AXS HRD bike is less than a pound more than my SRAM red mechanical rim braked bike although it is easier to achieve the UCI limit with a rim braked bike.
I see Model T Fords and old cars all the time. They work fine.
Can anyone who has not owned an electronic shifting bike even have an opinion on the matter?
My SRAM Red AXS HRD bike is less than a pound more than my SRAM red mechanical rim braked bike although it is easier to achieve the UCI limit with a rim braked bike.
I see Model T Fords and old cars all the time. They work fine.
Can anyone who has not owned an electronic shifting bike even have an opinion on the matter?
02-18-23, 05:56 AM
#27
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I think this is not a matter of “black or white” or reason to exclude some opinions, but rather of individual preference related to cost to benefit ratio. In a broader approach, 2 major upgrades affected road bikes during the last years: disk brakes and electronic shifting. They both are better than the old system (rim brakes and mechanical shifting). But together, they increased bike weight with 10-15% and its price with around 25%.
Do the changes solve well known issues of the old systems? Not quite, I think, at least for non-pro riders. Do they worth the “penalty” in weight and costs? That is a matter of individual preference.
Do the changes solve well known issues of the old systems? Not quite, I think, at least for non-pro riders. Do they worth the “penalty” in weight and costs? That is a matter of individual preference.
02-18-23, 06:01 AM
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Hogwash on the 15% increase in weight.
My SRAM Red AXS HRD bike is less than a pound more than my SRAM red mechanical rim braked bike although it is easier to achieve the UCI limit with a rim braked bike.
I see Model T Fords and old cars all the time. They work fine.
Can anyone who has not owned an electronic shifting bike even have an opinion on the matter?
My SRAM Red AXS HRD bike is less than a pound more than my SRAM red mechanical rim braked bike although it is easier to achieve the UCI limit with a rim braked bike.
I see Model T Fords and old cars all the time. They work fine.
Can anyone who has not owned an electronic shifting bike even have an opinion on the matter?
Last edited by seypat; 02-18-23 at 06:05 AM.
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02-18-23, 06:02 AM
#29
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02-18-23, 06:21 AM
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It still doesn't solve my issue of more shifting with a 2x over a 3x with the same range as noted in post 21. It just gets rid of the long, crunchy, crappy throw of a Shimano brake lever shift. I can keep using friction which is one movement with each lever no matter how many gears I want to move. I do have a couple of brifter bikes for group rides for the other riders that will give me the side eye for pulling out a friction bike.
02-18-23, 06:41 AM
#31
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02-18-23, 06:51 AM
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If the drivetrain companies really wanted to sell me electronic products, here's what they should do. Take whatever system they have and offer me a version of it for each DO spacing from 120 to the present. Use the same shifters/derailleurs on each. Offer it in 1x, 2x and 3x. The only thing different would be the number of gears in the back and the way the system is programmed. With no cable needed, it would be easy to do. No extra skus either except for the different cassettes or crankset options. I would be far more likely to upgrade a bike or two that way than what is currently offered. What am I missing?
This might sound like a talking head to some though. Maybe I should stop making sense.
This might sound like a talking head to some though. Maybe I should stop making sense.
Last edited by seypat; 02-18-23 at 07:02 AM.
02-18-23, 07:23 AM
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If the drivetrain companies really wanted to sell me electronic products, here's what they should do. Take whatever system they have and offer me a version of it for each DO spacing from 120 to the present. Use the same shifters/derailleurs on each. Offer it in 1x, 2x and 3x. The only thing different would be the number of gears in the back and the way the system is programmed. With no cable needed, it would be easy to do. No extra skus either except for the different cassettes or crankset options. I would be far more likely to upgrade a bike or two that way than what is currently offered. What am I missing?
This might sound like a talking head to some though. Maybe I should stop making sense.
This might sound like a talking head to some though. Maybe I should stop making sense.
02-18-23, 07:41 AM
#34
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If the drivetrain companies really wanted to sell me electronic products, here's what they should do. Take whatever system they have and offer me a version of it for each DO spacing from 120 to the present. Use the same shifters/derailleurs on each. Offer it in 1x, 2x and 3x. The only thing different would be the number of gears in the back and the way the system is programmed. With no cable needed, it would be easy to do. No extra skus either except for the different cassettes or crankset options. I would be far more likely to upgrade a bike or two that way than what is currently offered. What am I missing?
This might sound like a talking head to some though. Maybe I should stop making sense.
This might sound like a talking head to some though. Maybe I should stop making sense.
No extra SKUs. How much supply chain or operations experience do you have? Or do you just holler down to Pete on the outbound side to rip up a 2x kit and cobble together a 3x kit. Stuff is designed and sold as systems and sometimes subsystems. And, 2x FD never really worked on 3x setups.
02-18-23, 07:45 AM
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I am, as are a lot of the C & V crowd. We do whatever we can to keep those older frames going. Realize that older frames could mean something from 2-3 years ago. With nothing being backwards compatible, whatever is current becomes old/obsolete with each new system. So, whatever you're riding now will suffer the same fate in 3-5 years.
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02-18-23, 07:50 AM
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This person's in the same situation as the typical C & Ver. What should he/she do?
Realistic new bike expecations - cost and weight
Realistic new bike expecations - cost and weight
02-18-23, 08:09 AM
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The move to electronic shifters is a great business move. I would assume the margins are higher and this is the logical extension of the move from repairable components to replaceable components.
The difference between a metal wire, an electronic wire or a wireless signal is meaningless. All systems have strengths and weaknesses, the consumer can make the decision what works for them.
Companies are not looking to help you create the best cycling experience, but rather to make money. People can be convinced of anything and with enough marketing, will do exactly as they are told.
The difference between a metal wire, an electronic wire or a wireless signal is meaningless. All systems have strengths and weaknesses, the consumer can make the decision what works for them.
Companies are not looking to help you create the best cycling experience, but rather to make money. People can be convinced of anything and with enough marketing, will do exactly as they are told.
02-18-23, 08:24 AM
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The move to electronic shifters is a great business move. I would assume the margins are higher and this is the logical extension of the move from repairable components to replaceable components.
The difference between a metal wire, an electronic wire or a wireless signal is meaningless. All systems have strengths and weaknesses, the consumer can make the decision what works for them.
Companies are not looking to help you create the best cycling experience, but rather to make money. People can be convinced of anything and with enough marketing, will do exactly as they are told.
The difference between a metal wire, an electronic wire or a wireless signal is meaningless. All systems have strengths and weaknesses, the consumer can make the decision what works for them.
Companies are not looking to help you create the best cycling experience, but rather to make money. People can be convinced of anything and with enough marketing, will do exactly as they are told.
Best answer so far whether a person agrees with it or not.
02-18-23, 08:29 AM
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Yes, You could rent an electronic shifting bike for some days and have a valid opinion, but I doubt you have any saddle time on a modern bike. BTW.....120mm drop out width went out in the 70's.
No extra SKUs. How much supply chain or operations experience do you have? Or do you just holler down to Pete on the outbound side to rip up a 2x kit and cobble together a 3x kit. Stuff is designed and sold as systems and sometimes subsystems. And, 2x FD never really worked on 3x setups.
No extra SKUs. How much supply chain or operations experience do you have? Or do you just holler down to Pete on the outbound side to rip up a 2x kit and cobble together a 3x kit. Stuff is designed and sold as systems and sometimes subsystems. And, 2x FD never really worked on 3x setups.
02-18-23, 08:38 AM
#40
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Another example that I started to see (just here and there, for the moment): aluminum wheels are sold only with the third level group sets (e.g. Shimano 105 DI or Sram Rival axs). But if you want the second level (eg Ultegra DI2 or Force axs), you must accept a configuration with carbon wheels and integrated carbon handlebar - some 400-800 EUR extra cost.
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02-18-23, 08:54 AM
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The only big problem with electronic shifting is price.
02-18-23, 09:54 AM
#43
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From the Mods: WE HAVE A PRESENT FOR YOU!
Bike Forums>Pre-1990 Road Bikes with Electronic Shifting
Let's see if it can beat the 76 threads that have accumulated over 2 years in the sadly moribund Early Brifters thread!
Bike Forums>Pre-1990 Road Bikes with Electronic Shifting
Let's see if it can beat the 76 threads that have accumulated over 2 years in the sadly moribund Early Brifters thread!
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02-18-23, 11:22 AM
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I am, as are a lot of the C & V crowd. We do whatever we can to keep those older frames going. Realize that older frames could mean something from 2-3 years ago. With nothing being backwards compatible, whatever is current becomes old/obsolete with each new system. So, whatever you're riding now will suffer the same fate in 3-5 years.
This person's in the same situation as the typical C & Ver. What should he/she do?
Realistic new bike expecations - cost and weight
Realistic new bike expecations - cost and weight
02-18-23, 11:23 AM
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02-18-23, 11:37 AM
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Ok. Then why bring 120 mm drop outs into the discussion, it lessens your credibility. I used a 3X for decades to tour. 2x with 12 speeds or even 1x 13 speed would be enough for almost all touring. Not all. Almost all. Companies do not make products for the fringe elements. Part of my cycling is on a fringe bike, a very fast recumbent. It is probably more common than 3x but I don't expect any special concessions WRT products from big bike.
The only big problem with electronic shifting is price.
The only big problem with electronic shifting is price.
Last edited by seypat; 02-18-23 at 11:44 AM.
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02-18-23, 11:40 AM
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02-18-23, 11:42 AM
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His situation is worse than mine. He'd shell out a bunch of coin for a heavier bike. I'd about break even.
02-18-23, 11:45 AM
#49
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02-18-23, 12:19 PM
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You want the cycling industry to produce electronic shifting for 3x setups and 120 mm rear spacing, and he wants to know if he can get a 17 lb. bike with disc brakes and electronic shifting for $5k. How are those two situations even remotely related?
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