tomato coupe

You didn't really read Wheelreason's post, did you?

BTW: A fully built 2019 Colnago CR-S with Ultegra is $2400 at Wiggle. I'd say that's a more reasonable comparison.

DaveSSS 

Sure I did, but my comparison is not absurd. Someone writing their biased opinion doesn't make it true. If you were to walk into your local shop and see a brand new frame that you really like for half price or less, that is identical to the newest model, with a paint job that you like better, would you pay twice as much to get the 2020 model? That would be absurd, in my opinion. The following year, your pricey 2020 frame may be worth half price, too - even less if it was used for a year.

Many bike frames stay exactly the same for years, which is the case for this one. The only difference in the C-RS model over 4 years of production from 2016 to 2019 is the colors of paint offered from one year to the next. The bright red paint of the 2017 model was changed to a dull matte red in 2018 or 2019 - the last year of production. A customer like me is far more likely to want the 2017 model over the 2019, just due to the paint. It's not like bike frames get old, sitting in a box.

I've owned two Colnago C-40 bikes, back when they were top of the line in the early 2000's. Even when 20 years old, these bikes draw a relatively high price, in immaculate condition, due to the fancy paint jobs that were in vogue back then. They were nice riding bikes too. I had a Mapie and a Rabobank model. Top of the line Colnago C64 frames now cost over $6,000 each. IMO, it would be stupid for an old guy like me to buy one, even though I can certainly afford it.

FWIW, I just sold a 2004 LOOK KG 461 frame on E-bay in immaculate condition for $250 and used my brand new $700 C-RS frame for an upgrade. It's significantly lighter and stiffer and I like the Colnago geometry a bit better. $450 to get a new lighter and stiffer frame is a deal, IMO.

All bikes depreciate quickly. I've owned two top of the line LOOK 585 bikes. One frame had a special edition red paint job and cost $3000 back in 2006, when that was a lot of money. A couple of years later, I found a last year's 585 ultimate with a lighter and stiffer layup for only $1800. Both were build up with Campy Record. I had two bikes that cost about $5,000 each to build. I sold the two bikes for $5,000 - half what I paid for them - at the end of the 2010 season.

noglider 

I've built most of my own bikes. I only buy used. Occasionally, a bike will come equipped as I want, and the changes I make are not drastic. I've also built up bikes from bare frame. There are reasons it's economical for me. One is that I've worked as a bike shop mechanic, so I'm competent enough to do it right, and I can do it faster than most people. Another is that I'll have at least some of the components on hand already. If you have to buy everything to build a bike, it's almost sure to cost more than buying a bike.

One reason to start with a bike than to build is that there is no guarantee your plan will work, and there is no one you can hold responsible. Some of your choices might not be compatible.

DaveSSS 

The first couple of bikes that I owned were bought at a local shop, ready to ride, but the last dozen over 30 years have all been built from scratch, starting with a frame. It's really not very complicated. You must know the type of BB required, with so many press fit variations now being made. Since I use Campy components, I make sure that Campy makes the necessary BB cups to permit the installation of an Ultra torque crankset, before buying any frame. Some frames may require direct mount rim brakes or disc brakes. That's no problem. All you have to do is read the specs on the frame to know what to buy. FWIW, the only part from my 2004 frame that doesn't on my fit on the 2017 model is the BB cups. The old frame had an English threaded BB and the new one takes BB86 press fit. Other than that, all of the parts transferred directly over from my old bike to the new, but the majority of parts on the old frame were also new, having been replaced, last July. The 27.2mm seatpost diameter is often used these days, even though it originated as a diameter that matched the inside of the top level steel frame seat tubes, dating back at least to the 80's. With modern carbon frames, there is no particular reason to use it.

tomato coupe

You may be reading it, but I don't think you're understanding it.

phtomita

My first road bike was a aluminum frame with carbon fork, Tommaso Tiempo with full Sora comps (including the crankset too).
It was on deep discount in the beginning of April (was the model from previous year). Just notice they don't have this model anymore.
Really enjoyed it for a year to when get started biking. The bike shop where I used to go suggested me a steel frame for my riding goals (more endurance).

Then, found a nice looking Tri-A on craigslist the next year. Changed the drive-train to modern comps after trying couple rides with downtube shifters.
Had great fun shopping around for a full 105 5800 silver group-set and regretting buying a 11-28 cassette (later replaced to 11-32T),
a 172.5mm crank arm (replaced to 165mm) and bunch of other small things I really don't need (reflector adhesive, little bags, cheap tool set, ...).
I took the bike to the shop for build after stripping the comps from the bike myself (more tools I had to buy).

Soon, I wanted to ride to work since the traffic is pretty heavy specially going home.
Got a Sekai and learned to build a wheel (rear, 36 holes, Tiagra hub, 27") to go along with a cheap Ultegra 6700 find from craigslist.

Finally found the ProTour16 at the beginning of last year - a flat bar, 7 speed freewheel, triple crankset.
All 105 bits from Tri-A was moved to the ProTour15, including the wheels with 32 spokes, added fenders + rear rack for my current commuter.
The Tria-A got a new set of wheels I built from scratch (20, 24holes) and got the Ultegra bits from Sekai.
The sekai was built back to downtube shifters and passed forward.

This year, got new 105 R7000 silver bits with 160mm crankset. It will go to the Tri-A with white bar tape.
Wheels are gray anodized and I am ok with it, but could be silver.

Building my own bikes brought me the option to chose the comps I want along with experience to work with bike mechanics.
And saving some $ from adjustments/fixes I can do myself instead of bringing to bike shop == more comps I can buy and play with.

Wildwood 

I prefer to build from the frameset.
But I'm mostly a C&V guy, so buying a frameset is often the only way to get what i want.

Miele Man

When I worked a very large bicycle shop in Toronto Canada in the 1980s it was quite common for people to buy frameset and then put the components they liked/wanted onto it.

Cheers

DaveSSS 

I understand it perfectly. It's just one opinion, no better than mine. IMO, paying twice as much for a current model year frame that's identical, to last year's model is stupid, if neither has seen any use. Build either frame into a complete bike and use each for a couple of years, then try to resell it. You will NOT recover the large additional price that you paid for the newer model frame. The same applies to a complete bike. If you pay $2400 for a 2020 complete 105 bike, instead of $1400 for a brand new 2019 leftover model, then use each for a couple of years, you will not recover the extra $1000 that was paid for the 2020 model. Resale value is based mostly on the condition of the bike.

Johnk3

I have had a few bikes built. It is more expensive than a store-bought bike, but you get exactly what you want. ready-built bikes always have a few corners cut with some cheaper components thrown in where it is hard to see. Frequently they use cheaper wheels and hubs. There is not much point in buying a ready built bike if you are going to replace the wheels at some point. There are a few inexpensive sets of wheels in my garage, ignored and not worth selling.

richart

If you can find an off the shelf bike fitted out with the components that you want, then that is usually the least expensive way to go...the bike manufacturers can buy components far cheaper than you can. However, if you want a bike fitted with certain wheel sets, gear sets, cranks or brake sets that are not available on an off the shelf model, then you are probably better off building what you want...it will probably be cheaper than buying a bike and then changing out major components to customize.

WhyFi

I don't mind full bikes with cheap, place-holder wheels. What I dislike is when they spec (and you have to pay extra for) mid-tier wheels that still need to be replaced.

jadocs

You can give it to me, I'll take whatever you have off your hands lol

Johnk3

There is also the issue of fit. Carbon fiber bikes tend to come in only a handful of sizes at most, then fitted out with generic sized stems, handlebars, cranks, etc. To get the proper fit, you may have to replace a lot of these things. A typical steel bike may be available in up to 17 sizes plus may offer custom sizes at no extra cost. My Cinelli has all custom geometry and the frame cost the same as a stock frame. The same with my Barco. Too many cyclists ignore getting a proper fitting by a pro; without a proper fit, your super bike is just junk, like a bad fitting suit.

Just because the bike company selling complete bikes can buy groupsets cheaper, that does not necessarily mean you will be getting your money's worth. Remember the profit margin they build in to the cost. Complete groupsets are not terribly expensive for what you get. You can choose your crank length, crank gearing, cassette gearing usually at no extra cost.

WinterCommuter

like so many things, with a new bike there is an easy way and there is a right way. If what you desire is a very specific dialed in set of components Or if you simply want the lightest thing you can imagine, i think building is the way to go. That said, all that flexibility comes at a price. Building a complete build takes time, knowledge, and some tools that might not otherwise be needed. For me, i prefer to start with a stock bike and tweak as i discover things that aren’t to my liking. Also, as my bikes age, i tend to move to modern parts. finally, i Usually ride my bikes for 10+ years.

for instance, I have a 2003 sworks e5 with no original parts. On the other hand, i have a 2015 sworks venge that’s still nearly stock. Both bikes make me smile on nearly every ride.

DaveSSS 

One of the biggest improvements is bike geometry charts is the addition of stack and reach dimensions. If applied properly, those tell you if a given bike will fit with an appropriately sized stem length and angle and require little or no spacers. The part that's most often goofed up is comparing two sizes of the same frame and failing to correct the reach dimension, for the SAME stack height on both bikes. Assume that spacers or more stem angle will be used to create the same bar height on the smaller frame and subtract 3mm for each 10mm of stack height difference, from the reach of the smaller frame. Then figure the difference in reach.

Not many people want a steel framed bike these days, even if they can be had in custom geometry, for no extra cost. It still takes extra time to build. IMO, it's rare when a stock frame can't be found to fit well, except for the minority of people who have very large, very small or oddly proportioned bodies. I'm on the short torso and long legged side, but know exactly what to look for in a new frame.

sloman

The main benefit of building is the self reliance thing. Same with building your own wheel. I enjoy both activities and like knowing I can fix that bastard if need be. There are time I sheepishly slink into the LBS, Last time was to remove an Octa-link BB I didn't want to buy the tool to remove. And once for a stuck post because I really didn't want to muck up the vintage frame(took them a while too, but no damage). As I said though, I enjoy greasing. Your milage may vary.

tduncan86

And do not forget to budget for a suitable workspace and some tools

eduskator

In theory, buying a complete bike should always be cheaper than building one (from scratch or buying a new bike & upgrading components right away).

As you said, if you are nitpicky or have specific needs, custom building might be your best option. Otherwise, you'll end up riding a bike that you don't like. Either ways, I'd say run the numbers for all possible options, and make a decision after.

Cycle Tourist

My first real racing bike was started with a frame to save money. I built my own wheels and carefully shopped parts. I don't think I ended up saving money but I sure had fun and got my perfect bike.
With many factory purchases you can get the parts you want and roll out with the best price. I don't think I've ever saved money building it myself but I still do it.

sdmc530

Very true! I take for granted that some of us are lucky enough to have a make home bike shop set up with a nice tool collection. When I do get some extra money I do invest in tools I will use.

Cycle Tourist

My first real racing bike was started with a frame to save money. I built my own wheels and carefully shopped parts. I don't think I ended up saving money but I sure had fun and got my perfect bike.
With many factory purchases you can get the parts you want and roll out with the best price. I don't think I've ever saved money building it myself but I still do it.