thook

yeah, the price is an instant buzz kill...lol

Andy_K 

If you're talking about the mid-80's hubs, I can offer some speculation. I have both and while I haven't opened them up (both are perfectly smooth), I can say they look suspiciously similar. The main difference (externally) is that the Specialized hubs have an alloy dust cap while the SunTour have plastic.

SunTour


Specialized


SunTour


Specialized


I've read that both were made by Sanshin, but I have no evidence of that.

Andy_K 

My first taste of Superbe was on a 1984 Pinarello Gran Turismo.

As purchased:


This was the source of the Specialized hubs pictured above (since moved to a Raleigh with chrome socks). It had Superbe brakes, brake levers, derailleurs, crank, and seat post -- including the somewhat rare RD-5800 Superbe II long cage rear derailleur.

Andy_K 

I have made one change -- I swapped out the Crank Bros pedals for a set of Superbe quill pedals.

These components (and the frame) are much more worn than the picture makes them look. All of it is basically rider condition. I'm pretty sure that is the only 3-pulley Superbe rear derailleur in existence though.

tendency

The differences are, at least according to my samples, the Specialized is a 'sealed' hub meaning it has an exposed bearing race with basically a dust covering seal. Here is a Specialized 'Sealed' hub taken from a '86 Trek 760:



Here is the Suntour taken from an '86 Miyata Pro. This has a full cartridge bearing:

uncleivan 

Another Davidson, full superbe pro (shh! Dont tell i have a campy headset on there).

The Golden Boy 

I bought a set a a few years ago- they came with a set of chewed up Superbe levers... I wonder if that's what kept them affordable. But the brakes were in really nice shape with lots of life left on the pads...

Gran Compe by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

The Golden Boy 

I like "old" Cylone better than Superbe. I'm kind of the wrong person to comment as I do like "our-y stuff rather than race-y stuff. As I'm aware- 70s Cyclone is more versatile and lighter than Superbe- but Superbe is more robust. Not in a VGT sort of way- but more precise and dominant.

As you get into the 80s Superbe and Superbe Pro (sometimes "Superbe Pro" is a different line- sometimes it takes the place of "Superbe") were both racing and shoehorned into a couple of different long cage units. pcb would have the better idea on this.

My personal favorite is the post 1989 Superbe Pro- I've read of them being referred to as "jewelry for your bike." The top level Suntour stuff was just awesome; the polishing and anodizing left them with that gorgeous sheen and shine. The shifters had that perfect twist to them. The hidden spring brakes were awesome- (the return springs were built inside the arms- so you never saw them).

One thing I totally love is the seat post- it's the most adjustable seat post- and it has that understated Superbe Pro branding. Which is precariously screened onto the post- one errant swipe and it's gone forever.

620 Build Seatpost by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr


The Superbe Pro twisty shifters:

IMG_6700 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

IMG_6704 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr



I sold off my brakes a while ago- someone got a good deal on those... I should get pix of the derailleurs. Beautiful stuff.

jdawginsc 

The levers were nice, but it is the calipers that are extraordinary. Just perfection in lines and art. Superbe levers plus those center pulls, I would be in heaven...until I wrapped myself into a tree staring at them...

The Golden Boy 

Think of it this way- they don't make the pad holders anymore- the posts are thinner than ordinary canti pad posts. You'd need to sand/turn down new ones.

So the prohibitive price is saving you from that!!!

smontanaro 

I'm in Kansas City right now, so can't check mine, but I did replace the bearings on the rear of my first set (which I still have). Both front and rear took standard cartridge bearings. As far as I recall, they had seals and went in as a single unit.

smontanaro 

As long as we are discussing superior SunTour Superbe stuff, this eBay listing seems interesting/rare. I thought SunTour Superbe Pro bacon slicer type hubs were only for track. This (expensive) one doesn't have space for a lock ring, so despite the listing title, it would appear to actually be a road hub. I don't recall seeing this style hub in a road configuration before. Sure is pretty.

thook

But, they still makes the brakes, right?

The Golden Boy 

DiaCompe makes a brake that's called the GC450. They look similar- but not the same as the circa 1982 GC 450.

I would be surprised if the new GC 450s also had proprietary pad holders.

jdawginsc 

Exactly! Maybe some will eventually drop at my feet, I can get some Superbe engraved levers, and I can ride without brakes pads!

And as much as the new GC450s are pretty, they are not in the same league...!

area531 

Both ends of that hub are threaded, and it appears the shoulder-to-locknut dimension is different on each side. Could it be a Superbe Pro tandem hub, NDS threaded for a drum brake?

pcb 

My memory is getting hazy on this stuff, but IIRC the cog spacing spec between New Winner & Winner/Winner Pro didn't change. The primary change to W/WP was cutting down the number of threaded cogs to ensure more accurate, repeatable cog spacing. At least that's the explanation the engineers gave us.

Suntour additionally made a bunch of other ill-advised changes to cut production costs, which all blew up in their faces. But that's a whole other rant.

pcb 

Were there headset issues other than having to be careful not to let the wrench slip on all the aluminum bits? I don't recall any.

Shimano had Hyperglide locked down solid with patents, which left Suntour struggling with flat cog tooth profiles.

Roger M

Yeah, I get it. I have a Rossin that came to me with tri color 7 speed. It worked very well, much better than the Super Record stuff that I replaced it with.

pcb 

The hub story is maybe a little complex.

The 1st-gen Superbe Pro hubs were not sealed unit cartridge bearings, they were a pretty cool hybrid setup that were as well-sealed as a cartridge bearing, but completely disassemblable/rebuildable.

The 1st-gen Specialized hubs were essentially clones of the 1st-gen Spb Pro hubs, with different graphics. I'm hazy on the dust cap plastic/alloy/? details. Specialized gave their hubs a lifetime warranty, and priced them aftermarket below Spb Pro hub pricing. Japan wouldn't let us match Spec'l pricing or warranty, and then complained when our aftermarket hub sales dropped off. Duh.

Later in the '80s the Spb Pro hubs changed over to a standard sealed cartridge bearing, probably '86ish, around the time they started sinking. I don't know if/when Specialized followed suit.

Sanshin did indeed mfr all the Suntour hubs, at least up to the SR/Suntour merger. Sanshin was ostensibly a separate company, and also made some automotive components. But the president of Sanshin, Mamoru Kawai, was the son of Suntour/Maeda's chairman Junzo Kawai, so I'm assuming Maeda owned a large chunk of Sanshin. Similar to Panasonic/Miyata, but Maeda was in even deeper with Sanshin, since Sanshin didn't sell any hubs to Maeda competitors, at least afaik. Chalk that all up to weird Japanese cross-shareholding stuff.

I don't know, but have a feeling that Spec'l would have ordered their hubs through Suntour, as part of a Suntour purchase order, not directly from/through Sanshin. That said, I can't remember if Spec'l was even ordering directly, or whether they were consolidating purchases through Kozaki or one of the other bike-related Japanese trading companies.

Andy_K 

The Pinarello I pictured now (under new ownership) has Nuovo Record components. While I was riding it, it had 11-speed Athena.