Calsun

The primary differences with gravel bikes are the tires with 700x38 on most, the drop bar profile, and the possible addition of a dropper seat post. A brand new Specialzed Diverge E5 gravel bike retails for $1,300 which is not cheap if one is thinking Wal-Mart bike prices, but it is by no means expensive. The Salsa Journeyer Sora 700c is sold by bike shops and sells for less than $1,100.

Hardtail mountain bikes work well on gravel and the tire sizes they use are common to a great many tires from Maxxis and others that are less aggressive and suitable for use on gravel. The highly regarded Specialized Rockhopper bikes start at $600.

Take the time to do a little research before you start whinging on which is always counterproductive.

nlerner

I did a 330-mile tour last week, 90% of which was on unpaved surfaces: packed gravel, loose gravel, dirt, mud, grass. I was on 650b x 48mm tires, which overall were a good choice though not great mud tires. I don’t think I would have been a happy camper on much narrower tires.

SkinGriz

I think “anything goes” is part of why it’s popular. It seems in a world of increasing specialization a “new” bike was needed.
New defined as modern high performance bike (road bike tech) that was more useful than a road bike.

Cue the pitchforks and stoke the fires… I think Grant Petersen and modern gravel bike fans are probably desiring the same (or similar) type of riding experience. Maybe a couple pounds difference in their approach. Usually when I see spandex hamsters riding by, I can spot right away where a couple pounds should be shed…

I heard a saying before. The narcissism of small differences.

ETA it’s great to have options.

mstateglfr 

Well yeah, of course it's personal opinion- all cycling is personal opinion. Personal opinion is why on a forum that largely talks about downtube friction shifting exists in 2023.

But despite it being personal opinion(preference), that doesn't mean that on the whole there aren't benefits to the things that have become commonplace.
- Wide bars- having flared drops help to slow down and stabilize steering on loose surfaces and descents. You may not find that beneficial, but it is largely accepted because so many have found a benefit in slowing and stabilizing steering on loose surfaces and fast descents.
- Slack angles- this is hardly universal. Some modern gravel bikes have slack angles and some modern gravel bikes have fairly traditional angles. Similarly, some classic gravel bikes(mtb, touring, hybrid) have slack angles and some classic gravel bikes have fairly traditional angles. What's really wild is that some modern gravel bikes have slack head tube andlges and steep seat tube angles. What?! Crazy, huh?
Point is, there is no single geometry that is 'right' and a quick look at 10 different modern gravel bikes would easily show that there is no single right frame angle.
- Disc brakes- I have 1 disc frame and 8 rim frames right now, and the hydraulic disc frame brakes easier/better in dry and wet conditions. I don't actually need the disc brakes since I have managed to live just fine with rim brakes up to the point when I got disc brakes, but hydraulic disc brakes are a clear improvement for me. Like above, preferences vary and others will disagree. Cool. Having ridden geavel for years on both though, hydraulic required less pressure to operate and has better feel both initially and thru the full pull of the lever. Disc brakes also allow for wider rims and an increased use of carbon rims. Again, you may not care about either of those things, but that doesn't make the comment incorrect.


The 'any bike is a geavel bike' comment is quite frankly worthless. Its like saying any bike in a mountain bike if you ride it on singletrack down Aspen. Or any bike is a touring bike if you kludge a rack on and carry the rest in a backpack. Any bike is a track bike if you bring it to the velodrome.
Yada Yada.
No, actually not every bike is a mountain bike, even if you take it on singletrack down a mountain. And no, not every bike is a touring bike, even if you tour on it.
There are some key differences between bikes styles that exist because it has been shown that those differences help make a bike better for a specific use. It's why you don't see a downhill competition using road bikes and you don't see a 29er with knobs on the track.

If someone is starting at the beginning, I don't know why anyone would steer them away from common and we'll accepted general features and push them towards something niche/quirky.
Its funny- your questioning the benefit of flared bars and disc brakes is the same feeling I had when I read comments about how 27x1 1/4 is plenty of width for gravel. I read that and similar comments and questioned what the benefit of that is. There is 0 downside to a quality wider tire since it will be more comfortable due to lower pressure and will likely roll faster even at a lower pressure since it will deflect less. But apparently faster rolling and more comfort isn't what some prioritize.

mstateglfr 

mstateglfr 

Droppers are an extremely uncommon thing on gravel bikes. They seem to be added or popular in really niche segments - like people in Socal who use their gravel bike to underbike on rwchnocal singletrack and also fly down rutted washed out fire roads.

And I am hesitant to say 38 is the mean or median tire size for gravel riding.

albrt 

I have been working on a 1981-ish Peugeot Competition (PKN-10). Thread here.

It came with 27" wheels for the American market, but I could not really fit 1 1/4 tires at the chain stays (plenty of clearance everywhere else). I put a set of temporary 700x35s on it, and they barely fit.

The weird thing is, the stays have huge dimples centered right about where a fat tire on a 650b wheel would go. Definitely not where the original spec tires would go. I'm gonna try it and see if I can make 650bs work, but here is the part that is more relevant to this thread.

After I noticed this, I looked at 80s road bikes in two different co-ops, and the ones that have dimpled chain stays have the dimples in very different places. Some of them are perfect for the wheels the bike came with. But some of them are like the Peugeot, with huge dimples that are nowhere near where they would need to be if you wanted to put fatter tires on the original wheels.

At some point maybe I will post a thread asking frame builders if there is some other reason to put big dimples in a chain stay besides allowing wider tires. For purposes of this thread, the question is this: has anybody else noticed these big dimples on some 80s chain stays that seem to beg for a 650b conversion?

mattk42

DYI? Do yourself it?

To the OP, others have already said, but I'll echo my approach. I took a late 80s Rockhopper and put on wide drop bars with bar end shifters. Kept the gearing and brake calipers. It's a blast to ride. You may have to play around with the cockpit setup when doing something different from the original setup. So, it can be worthwhile to consider geometry. The advantage of a new packaged gravel bike is the geometry has been setup already. But, that doesn't mean you can't DIY. Or DYI.

LeftCoastJon

I put 700 x 35c on my '85 Nishiki Continental and only have a couple mil space front and back, no room for fenders - if you look close at this pic, you can just make out how little space there is between tire and brake bridge. I haven't tried larger tires but doubt they'd fit.

It rides nicely on road/ruff road/packed gravel (I haven't taken it on anything looser), there is no rubbing at all but I can't install the rear wheel inflated and I was disappointed that I couldn't go with fenders. The bike is really a touch small for me so it may move on before too long anyway. With pannier racks, it'd make a very nice long-distance mostly road tourer (which is what it was, after all).

There are compromises for sure starting with a C&V.

SkinGriz

Sorry. Too harsh.
I’m happy the roadies get to ride in a line with their friends.
I’m also happy that beach cruisers are effective cheap transportation for people who need them in SoCentral, Compton, Watts, etc.
Bikes are great.

DanseMacabre

Anything goes, but one thing you don't want is low trail. I have two bikes with low trail, but on bouncy roads it's a lot of work to keep them going in a straight line forward, and taking corners is unpleasant.

ehcoplex 

For me, the primary concern for gravel is fat & supple tires. Sure, there are masochists out there who will scoff and say "I ride gravel all the time on 25c tires!" A regular riding buddy used to be on an older, aluminum Trek road bike with 25c tires on rides we'd do together with a lot of gravel- I don't know how he did it, it looked miserable to me. Somehow he ended up with a not-so-old Fuji 'gravel' bike that can take fat tires and now he's saying 'I can't believe I was riding these roads on 25c tires- that was awful!'
Can you DIY a gravel bike? Of course! Not so much gravel-specific, but more 'all-road', I would (and do) take my '72 PX-10 650b conversion & '87 Trek 400t 650b conversion bikes pretty much anywhere.




I will note that the bar-end shifters on the Trek are a little nicer to have on really rough gravel/trails.

Chuck Naill

Gravel bikes look like 1980's Rock Hoppers to me. One thing that appealed to me about the Kona Sutra was the versatility. Our family still rides two Rock Hoppers. We upgraded some of the components on one.

bwilli88 

My dedicated All-road/Gravel
a modified hybrid from Japan.

mstateglfr 

I am not suggesting you file off the brake bridge, but you use canti brakes and that bridge is just sitting there unused...

retlaw53 

I had a Cannondale R500 that I bought new in the early '90s. A few years later I moved into a Waterford 1250. The R500 was then fitted with 700x30 knobby tires, The clearance was minimal, especially on the front. But I rode it for years for gravel, mainly rail trails and logging roads. It was a lot of fun even in muddy conditions. Last year, I restored it to it's factory specs and sold it. Now I'm contemplating a new build starting with a Nishiki Cresta or a Univega Super Ten that are sitting behind the house.

mpetry912 

an astute observation in my view. A concise synthesis of the general effect.

/markp

mstateglfr 

You think modern gravel bikes look like this?
I struggle to think of modern gravel bikes that have 460mm chainstays, bottom bracket drop that looks to be only like 40mm, a seat angle that is like 71 degrees, or a crazy slack head tube angle plus high fork rake that result in goofy low trail.

^ that is all fundamental geometry differences and doesnt even get into the brake style or drop bar that both heavily impact the look.

mpetry912 

there is definitely a cycling industrial complex that is determined to sell us more stuff every year. More speeds, more gears, etc

however it's great when a bike is not so "purpose specific" that it cannot be adapted to serve multiple roles and ride / surface types

my Dinucci was built with clearance for 35mm tires (tyres) and fenders, with fender eyelets for just this reason !

if you're going to own a bike for years you need this flexibility. Pro racers and wanna bees toss their bikes after each season.

Also, ​​​​​gugie can add cantilevers and rack mounts to vintage Raleighs and bike so adapted make excellent mixed road tourers.

/markp

LeftCoastJon

there's no more room under the fork crown at the front either and that's harder to remove...

gesta

1975 Peugeot PX50L gravel bike.
”Gravel specific” this and that is mostly marketing, and fashion items always command higher prices. Therefore, riding or adapting what you already have is sometimes the most sensible approach, especially when DIY is half of the hobby and if there happens to be boxes of stuff readily available.

Old bikes don’t become new even with bucket full of new components and a welding torch, but can’t really beat the feeling of riding your own creation. Pug above took me about a year and ~1k to build, it’s bit noodle when loaded but it sure is the most versatile bike I own.

For starting points to DIY, I’m repeating what others have already said: old sport tourers are often the best candidates.

Classtime 

Why do people ride on gravel? If you ride on gravel roads or the gravel at the curb, are you trying to just stay upright or are you trying to go as fast as possible for PRs or maybe you are racing? I haven't gotten into the serious -- think Gravel Racing -- gravel bikes but when I did do such a thing wrt to CX, UCI had limits on tire widths but geometry was all over the place on pro level bikes. I'm pretty sure it is the same for gravel.

cyccommute 

Guess no love for aluminum, huh? Cannondale has had an unbroken chain of touring bikes from 1983 to 2010 that are fully capable of doing dirt.

This one is at the start of a 76 mile ride on the High Line Canal Trail in the metro Denver area. About half of the trail is unpaved. It had no problems with handling the ride.


This Cannondale did around 700 miles of dirt riding on the tow paths and rail trails along the route from Toledo, OH across Ontario to New York then down along the Pennsylvania/New Jersey border and back up the C&O/GAP to Pittsburgh. Here it is north of Harper’s Ferry.



Other ones to consider are any of the millions of mountain bikes…both steel or aluminum… from rigid to front suspension to dually that have been made since 1983. Here are some of my “gravel” bikes. From 1985, a Miyata Ridge Runner. It’s rigid which is right in keeping with modern goofy idea of riding rigid bikes in hair shirts with nail bed saddles.





Hardtail from 1999. Fully capable of gravel and more.


A soft tail from 1998. Ideal for taking the edge off of hits without full suspension.


And then there is the ultimate dually…a Specialized Epic FSR. Unlike most double squishies, this one has a rear shock that locks out when pushed down from above…like when pedaling…but opens when hit from below. The rear suspension is active when you need it…in the rough…and inactive when you don’t. Where people on their rigid bikes with their hair shirts and nail saddles are crawling through rock gardens and washboards, this bike blasts right past them with barely a thought.



I did the rigid thing for many years. I earned my strips when it comes to gravel. Suspension…front suspension at the very least…makes riding gravel much more enjoyable.

mstateglfr 

My state has over 70,000mi of gravel/unpaved roads. Using them opens up routes that are quieter, hillier, more remote, and more scenic.
I look at it from the opposite side of you- why wouldn't I ride gravel?

In general, there is no tire width limitation for gravel races. Not sure if you were suggesting there is, but just wanted to clarify.

cyccommute 

People are so enamored with gravel for several reasons. Yes, there is the racing aspect but “gravel” riding was a thing before gravel racing was. Some of it is fear. People are afraid to ride around cars so they looked to quiet gravel roads. Some of it is the challenge. Riding gravel on a skinny tired bike is a bit more challenging than riding the same gravel on a mountain bike. Part of it is also the specialization of mountain bikes. Back in the 80s, mountain bike rides were often of a similar distance and/or more difficult than gravel rides today. They used to be point to point races and rides of extraordinary length of 50 miles or more. I used to lead rides on my rigid bike (see above) up to metric centuries going over a 11,600 foot pass twice! Modern mountain bikers seem to think that a 12 mile ride is “long” on bikes that have dual suspension and weigh a lot less than the old steel mountain bikes of the 1980s.

Personally, I think of the dedicated gravel bike idea as a bit silly. I like to ride gravel roads but I do it on a more appropriate bike or touring bike that I already have. There’s nothing wrong with using the right tool for the job.