mr_bill

People who think they are alone often aren't.

-mr. bill

mr_bill

Straight on red after stop.


-mr. bill

fixedweasel

Been commuting in Chicago year round for 15 years and have seen everything.* Our society unfortunately has lost it's/their ability to think through the most basic skills/problems/issues/shoe tying adventures and I see it on a daily basis. Live my life through common sense and critical thinking. That said, yes, I go through red lights after a slow. My commute is very early in the morning before 0500 and I'm amazed when I see a guy on a bike stopped at a red light with no traffic for blocks in any direction. Scary. Shy away from those folks because, most likely, they cannot think their way out of a wet paper bag. Ride safe, defensively, always with an out, head up, and most importantly, ride smart. That does not necessarily mean sitting at a stop sign or red light on barren roads, but actually using your melon. It's there for a reason. Let's all celebrate it with use, no?





*under the sun**
**and moon actually

JoeyBike

Hey FW. I see you are new here (low post count). Let me save you a few (many) strands of hair from being pulled out.

A&S is a special place. Yes, so is Earth for that matter. There are all kinds of people and all kinds of traffic scenarios. Here on A&S we are well represented with all kinds. We have those who thump the rule books, those who preach their own Dogma (me generally), those who do some thinking outside the painted lines and colored lights, and those who either CAN'T think, or DON'T WANT to think. Some need special colored lights, bells, buzzers, signals, and signs to make their way down a roadway, maybe even to make their way through life. They do not want to improvise because this takes work. They just want someone to slap down some rules and make it easy to just follow the rest of the lemmings over the cliff.

You are obviously (based on ONE post i have read) a person who thinks his way through life. You have AWARENESS as you sit at that crossroads in the middle of Kansas looking at a red light and wondering: "Would I disturb the order of the Universe, or go against God's will if I use my eyes and my brain right now. Who will it hurt if I proceed through this red light when the coast is clear from horizon to horizon?" Then, if this is your first time running a red, you carefully consider your options and go, or not. But henceforth, the decision you made (proceeding against a red in your case) becomes the natural procedure. The norm FOR YOU. Other people, who decided to wait it out, acquire that procedure as their "norm". In both cases, the REASONING stops. You are now predisposed to doing what makes sense to you, and they are predisposed to sitting their watching the grass grow.

So welcome aboard my friend! Great to have someone else here (there are a few others) who can figure out how to get through life, and across the street, without a colored light directing them. I salute you sir! And if you get frustrated around here, feel free to shoot me a PM if you need to vent. I am on your side!

Cheers!

Joey

mr_bill

Two people on bikes near your neighborhood.

One person lives on one side of city park.
The other person lives on the other side of city park.

Is the one who is NOT running a red light watching the grass grow - or is something else happening?

So the two melons on "bicycles" in the video who "Idaho stopped" in Massachusetts? What say you?

-mr. bill

mackgoo

Only long enough to determine it's safe to disobey. I'll typically slowly cruise up scanning for traffic, if it's clear I go.

SquidPuppet

Stop signs? Red lights? Nope. Not me.

Thank you Carl Bianchi.

fixedweasel

Thanks Joey, was a long time poster* on the FGG Forum. But alas, Dennis Bean Larson had sold off the site a couple of years ago or so. He was one of the Fathers** of the resurgence of the Fixed movement in the very early 2000's and it was a sad day when they shut that Forum down. Hadn't really posted on-line since then, but as you can see, time to again post and try to help out other folks with stuff(s). I initially signed on here back in 2006 but never really dipped a toe in the water on this side of the lake. I'll try and be productive to others with my garble.





*since 2004
**the Late Sheldon Brown was also a big influence on me and the true Fixed Father

JoeyBike

I know the feeling. Silverfish Forum for longboarders (giant skateboards) shut down this year. It was the primo place to learn or teach about every style of longboarding, parts, repairs, sources, the whole nine. Gone.

I heard that Facebook Groups killed that forum. Not to mention the decline of longboarding again.

Hope you brought some friends over because the fixed forum here has slowed over the past few years. Everybody I "knew" 5 years ago is gone now. Plenty of trouble to get into here regardless, so Welcome!

Doris2722

I will stop my car every time, because it's very dangerous if you do not follow the traffic sign.

JoeyBike

Agreed 100%

Leisesturm

Sigh... my numbers may be off, but not by very much: in the last year that we have complete data for 818 cyclists were killed in collisions with cars. The proof is incontrovertible that the VAST majority were hit while legally traversing intersections. Over 5,000 pedestrians were killed during that same time period. Again, the VAST majority were crossing intersections legally. Drivers killed 38,000 of their fellow drivers in that same year. Getting back to bicycles... I think it is safe to say that intelligently being nuanced about traffic signals when navigating city traffic may have a positive impact on ones safety. There is certainly very little evidence that it negatively impacts a cyclists safety, nor the safety of anyone else around!

The frustration (the butthurt) that some drivers might feel because law enforcement is not quite so laissez faire (with good reason) about scofflaw motorist behavior as they are about cyclist behavior I can't help. I will point out however, that at many intersections around Portland's downtown at every light cycle(!) there is at least one, and sometimes more, cars racing through the fresh red. Every light cycle. Add that up! I'm just about done with Bike Forums. I've never seen a more autocentric bunch of regulars in my life. Dash cam video documenting the behavior of cyclists? Really? Even the Living Car Free forum is dominated by car owners or former car owners that have been forced to adopt the (low) life of a high(er) mileage cyclist. With all the fear and (self) loathing that such a cursed fate elicits. Gah. Rant over. But the earlier numbers don't lie. Cyclists (and pedestrians) are in the large majority law abiding and risk averse. The exceptions would not fill Providence Park Stadium. Drivers on the other hand?? Not so much...

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

— Matthew 7:1-5 KJV

Daniel4

I see those stats. I compile my own for the city of Toronto. Then I read comments not specifically in defence of motorists but attack not only on cyclists for doing the same things that motorists do but also on self-driving cars for reducing road fatalities. Then I get criticized for asking why bad driving is acceptable?

If good driving were to become the acceptable norm, all those numbers would dramatically go down. The use of the word "accident" will truly represent what that would be instead of what they are now - collisions due to negligence. And cyclist deaths and injuries will be the responsibity on the cyclists who run reds and stop signs colliding with other cyclists and motorists going through greens.

KD5NRH

Which is the higher penalty there, running the red on a bike or jaywalking? For the few seconds it costs, it might be worth walking the bike across any where you have the slightest fear a cop could be watching.

North Coast Joe

My thinking and actions on this differ from most who have posted here, but not for most of the reasons presented so far.

I do stop completely at signs, and stop for the duration of a light. Not because of the legal implications or the safety factor, though safety is not an undesirable side effect. I stop and track stand because I ride for exercise and bike handling improvement. It's more effort to stand, then accelerate away from a stop than to roll through it.

The safety factor is an under rated side benefit....who hasn't had a brain fart and not seen an approaching vehicle, if they've ridden for a few years? The other less appreciated side benefit is that car/truck drivers who follow you through an intersection seem to give you more respect when passing later. "There's a bloke who actually follows motor vehicle regulations, not like the jerks who blow right through the stop!"

Again, I stop not for safety, but I don't want to be another unskilled, lazyass rider. I want to better handle the bike and put some effort into my ride.

PanoramicPixel

I always obey lights and signs. I want to be safe, and want others on the road to like me. I hate hearing how motorists rant and rave about cyclists running lights and signs thinking they are above the law. So to help paint a different image for us I do my best to lead by example. I want to be a part of traffic? I obey its rules. I don't get how waiting at a red with no other traffic is so bad. I leave early enough so a few extra seconds of waiting won't kill me.

noglider 

I assume you're asking about when we're riding bicycles, not other vehicles.

Often, I slow down so I'm ready to stop if I need to. Sometimes, slowing down gets me to notice someone coming that I wouldn't notice if I were moving at full speed. It also puts me in a more submissive position so that I'll prefer to stop rather than try to continue.

Sometimes I stop completely, especially at a red light. My reason is often so that other road users can see clearly what I'm doing.

I live in New York City and also in the central Hudson River Valley, two places where bending and breaking the rules isn't seen as reprehensible. It's different in other places.

rumrunn6

speaking of breaking the rules. I make every effort to follow them. however, recently I made a small deviation. I crossed with the light but went the wrong way in the bike lane. I normally go straight (across Mass Ave) with the light, then wait in a painted green box to make the left (crossing Mystic Rd) . however, being that it was a blizzard, & the traffic was light, when the left crossing light lit, I followed the pedestrian, but in the bike lane, the wrong way. right past a cop. hoping for desperate understanding, which I guess I got. but you should have seen his face: "OK, you're nutz but I'm not nutz enough to get out in this sh*t to tell you"


but then later I crossed the correct way (church bells included!)

Daniel4

I stop at all red lights and stop signs so that the motorists around me can no longer say they've never seen a cyclist stop at red lights or stop signs.

But they probably will anyways.

DrJ42

The way i look at it, doing so improves the overall impression that motorists have of cyclists, however minuscule the improvement. I do rolling stops at stop signs.

Leebo

I pedal how it is safest for me, not so the cars don't get pissed off. And following rules meant for cars? Pay attention, head on a swivel, so many lights and bright clothes. I want to take away the excuse" I didn't see the bike" Start there. So, most of the time? Extra care around peds, kids , dogs. Ever stop at a traffic light and look at how MANY drivers are not paying attention and looking at their phone? Scary. Sometimes I jump the green at an intersection or 2. Usually a T entering a main road. I'm stopped, turning, first in line. Make sure the other cars are stopping or stopped. There is 2-3 seconds where they have stopped and your light is not green. Pedal through the intersection, no cars are moving, you get through without incident.

cdkarp

When I ride to work at 4:30 in the morning I will roll through a few red lights since there is no traffic on the roads.

MikeyMK

If I use the queen's highway, then I keep to the rules of the road. It does not matter what vehicle I'm using - car, horse, chariot, skateboard, bike.. If someone thinks the rules don't apply to them on the basis of their chosen vehicle then frankly they're a w****r.

BikeLite

Bicyclists should obey all traffic sign/signals just like a car. I got a big ticket in 2014 that I posted about here after running a stop sign. I still see bikers running that same sign but I no longer do ; )

ccinnz

But but but... I thought laws were open to interpretation to cyclists!... am I wrong?