miyagibike

Hi, Salamndrine, and thanks for your thoughts and suggestions - super helpful! I have ordered some tan walled tubulars and plan to get one of the Paramounts in rideable condition. I have only very limited experience with tubulars but my "research" on You tube has prepared me for what will most likely be the worst part of the clean up - the part you mentioned about the 50 year old glue! I also ordered tubular tape (for alloy rims) to install the new tires once the old glue is off - does that sound like a viable option or should I stick with glue? I also plan on repacking the bearings and will follow your suggestion and not replace them because I believe the bikes were ridden very little (if at all!) I have dropped more than a few open bearings in my day and I'm sure there are a few rolling around in my garage.... somewhere! The brake levers are definitely labeled as Dia-Compe and one of the bikes has the additional "turkey lever/lifters". I do have some Weinmann centerpulls laying around and they do look pretty identical. I did read somewhere that some Schwinn-Approved centerpulls were re-badged Dia-Compes unless that was inaccurate. (Would it be possible to have Dia-Compe levers while having Schwinn-approved Weinmann brakes?) If not, I do have some Weinmann brake levers I could use if you think it would make the bike more accurate. (I don't think I did but its possible that I accidentally swapped the levers when I had the bikes somewhat dis-assembled when I first brought them home about 10 years ago. I seem to remember peeling off red, plastic/vinyl handle bar tape so I have ordered red cloth tape as an "upgrade". The original shifter cables are all OK and I will lube them up as you suggested. Thanks also for the Koolstop and Rustines tips! Once again, thank you so much for your advice, thoughts and suggestions - very much appreciated!

merziac

The Dia-Compe levers were paired with Weinmann calipers for the "Safety", turkey levers that Schwinn embraced and were standard on many Paramounts as well as most all other drop bar bikes in the bike boom.

That being said, you could make a judgement call and put the Weinmann levers on for a nice touch but if the ones on there now are not the safety lever version, I would leave them as they are most likely original, they used both versions to appeal to diehards and novices alike.

You will even see some with "Twin Stik" stem mounted shifters that were also used on almost every other 10 speed that they built during that time.

miyagibike

Hi, Classtime! Merziac is right, my reply to you will be my 8th post (of the required 10 for newbies like me!) but most often when I hit reply I get a message that says I'm not allowed to post because it has not been 24 hours - the required waiting period for my second set of 5 posts. I think when I made posts 1 - 5 which are allowed in the 1st 24 hour period - it seems like I need to wait 24 hrs from post#1 before I could submit #6 , 24 hrs after #2 to be allowed to post #7 and so on. So its been taking me a while to try to reply everyone. However, I'm very appreciative of everyone's comments, suggestions, humble opinions, etc. all have been very helpful as I finalize my clean up/restoration plan. Once I reach 10 posts I'll try to post a bunch of photos I've already taken of each bike - I'm sure the photos will prompt additional helpful suggestions. Also, as Merziac just suggested I had already ordered some tubular tape as I figured tape would allow me to do the cleanest tubular install once I get the 50 year old glue off! (a tedious job as Salamandrine warned!).

Classtime 

It's all good. Regarding the glue: I've cleaned off old glue on second hand rims with a small well seasoned flat blade screwdriver. Remarkably, it doesn't harm the rim and the glue flys off. If your tan walled Tubulars are Vittorias, 3 coats total: rim, tire, rim, mount. (Ive never used tape as it sounds like trouble.)

merziac

Nasty solvent can be key, or a wire wheel on a drill or both, messy crappy job, especially after 50 years.

Easiest to obtain is carburetor cleaner, Berrymans or Gumout like foaming type, not thin evaporating type, spray and soak, repeat and wait until it softens then wire wheel, elbow grease, more cleaner, etc, ad nauseum, literally.

Very nasty work and PPE is highly recommended especially if this is not in your normal wheelhouse.

Classtime 

Chip it off and it comes off sorta clean except for eyelets. Use solvents for a final cleanup if you want to take some pictures of clean rims. Solvents take their sweet a__ time to soften old glue and your still scraping. But like all this C&V stuff, it is a kick before during and after.

cb400bill

You can say ass.

miyagibike

Howdy, Lascauxcaveman. As you may have read already, I'm leaning towards cleaning/restoring one of the Paramounts to original riding condition and leaving the other one in "as-is" condition (as you suggested) aside from cleaning it up for photos. Also, you were right, as a couple of folks have recently mentioned the possible availability of 20" Paramounts!! Thanks for your helpful advice!

bulgie 

61 cm is not large enough for a touring bike for someone 6'4". Well, some people would say it's OK, but in a classic bike with original stem that can't be raised much, that'll put the bars too low for most people's taste. I'm two inches shorter than him, and 61 was the right size for me when I was racing. I had a good aero tuck and did well in time trials, so that's not a "sit up and beg" position. Now I like a 65 cm for my very much non-racing riding, which puts the top of the bars about level with the top of the saddle. Your stepson at 6'4", in a classic bike with level toptube etc., probably needs 66 to 68 cm unless he likes the bent-over racing position.

The tubular tires on yours may make people thing "racing bike" but believe it or not, enthusiasts used to tour on tubulars, even with a full camping load. Available clinchers just weren't very good, so if you were already spoiled by the ride of tubs, you didn't want to give it up. Even epic rides like BikeCentennial were fairly often done on tubulars. I rode clinchers across the continent in '76, but I did consider tubulars (my bike originally came with them). I was just to poor to afford them. You tend to go through a few of them on a long tour.

A P-15 can be converted into a classic racing bike pretty easily, but as equipped, it's definitely a tourer.

Mark B in Seattle

Lascauxcaveman 

You're welcome. And again, if you're going to flip these bikes, your best bet financially and time-wise is to not do anything at all the but wipe off the dust. The new tubulars you put on them are unlikely to be the ones the end user wants, yada, yada, etc, etc.

BUT, if you go that route and decide to "do up" one the bikes, the easiest and fastest way to clean a tubie rim is neither solvent, not a wire wheel, but a heat gun and some rags. Ten or twelve bucks at Harbor Freight, 10-15 minutes per rim; melt the glue 4-5 inches at a time, wipe it off. No drama, less fumes, and you're done.

miyagibike

Hi again, Lascauxcaveman and others,

I think this is my 10th post (of the 10 required for newbies) so hopefully after today I can attempt to upload some photos. After reading everyone's very helpful advice, suggestions, insight, etc. I probably will proceed with the cleanup of one of the Paramounts, getting it into rideable condition but will probably not mount the new tubulars I have ordered. (I initially thought any tires I installed would be appreciated by a potential new owner so as to be able to test the bike right away). As some of you wisely pointed out, the tires I install might not be (probably won't be) what someone else would want. (I ordered Continental Giro's and tubular tape) Also, I'm planning on removing the original, 50 year old Clement 50's and taking a crack at cleaning the rims myself as part of the clean up/restoration process. The heat gun idea seems to be the simplest although I'm sure that chipping away, wire brushing and the use of solvents (all very helpful suggestions as well) will all come into play. But mostly, since I have only stretched and glue-mounted tublulars once before many years ago, I realized that I would not feel comfortable being responsible for someone else's safety while they were riding on a tubular set that I mounted! So ....I'll strip off the old tires and clean/polish the rims but include the unmounted tires and tape so at least it could be rideable if the new owner chose to mount them. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome and thanks again for everyone's help!

miyagibike

Hi, All, Here are some photos of both Paramounts (hopefully) from my photostream on Flickr. To distinguish between the two bikes, The 1971 has the red pinstriping which outlines the Nervex lugs. The 1972 has a seat post but no seat. The 1972 is displayed 1st and the photo of the Schwinn original tool pouch is where the photos of the 1971 begin. Also, both bikes have only been lightly cleaned and wiped down and are largely in the same condition that I found them in (minus most of the dust and cobwebs,etc. - still lots of dust seen on the hubs and freewheels of each). In a few areas I tried some auto polish which easily removed some small specks of rust. Interestingly, the shinier the chrome became as I cleaned, the more difficult it became for my phone's camera to auto-focus due to the mirror-like finish! Other than a few minor minor blemishes and rust specks the chrome on both bikes seems exceptional in my opinion, with no dings or dents that I could find. There's one gleaming image of the underside of the 1972's bottom bracket that is especially telling as this is usually a pretty grungy area on a well used bike. I feel they are both remarkable garage finds! Thanks again to all for your comments!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/189736756@N05/

Pcampeau

Wonderful photos! They both look excellent!

miyagibike

Hi, All, again! I hope you were able to access the photos - I welcome your comments. I just read a couple of Private Messages that I was not able to access until now (when I finally completed my 10 required posts requirement as a new poster) regarding two Paramounts possibly available for trade in my (and my wife's) size!! This might change everything?!?! Since we are not supposed to discuss buying/selling/trading in this forum I will proceed to receive more information via Private Messages or the marketplace. I'm sure I'll reach out to you again soon seeking your collective advice and opinions on how to proceed with restorations, original parts, accuracy, etc. Thanks again - I'll update soon!

miyagibike

Thanks! I look forward to cleaning them up to see their full potential! (Or maybe a couple of them in my size if I'm lucky??) Any thoughts on what might work best to polish chrome? Would any automotive chrome polish be OK or is there some specific brand/type I should look for? Thanks again.

Pcampeau

Yes automotive chrome polish is fine. Steel or bronze wool are also great and will make short work of most of the rust you have, which obviously isn’t much. Just don’t touch the lug lining. You’ll need to keep the frames waxed in order to keep any pitting from rusting again.

miyagibike

Thanks for the advice! I did try some #0000 steel wool and was amazed at what that alone could accomplish! Any recommendation on wax type? Also, the 1971 in particular has really nice decals - is there anything special I need to take care of these? In any case I won't be using any harsh chemicals, solvents or abrasives near them. I read somewhere that they have probably been clear-coated. Does that sound right to you? Thanks again!

Pcampeau

The decals may have been spot clear coated (I’m not sure) but there should be no clear coat on the frame. Unfortunately these decals are not very durable when applied to chrome. Luckily there are good accurate replacements available if you ever need them. Ya know, its funny, I’ve got my own pair of chrome Paramounts tale to tell that I haven’t started a thread for yet. You beat me to it, I’ll have to start one soon. I refurbished them both earlier this year and both are from 72 with sequential serial numbers. Both are P-13 9s. Anyway, I’ve got a pretty good idea what lies ahead for you and for me it was a very good experience. Enjoy!

Salamandrine 

I usually just use Johnson's paste wax. Use whatever brand you prefer.

Even 0000 steel wool has the potential to scratch chrome. I'll use it on more utilitarian bikes and old rusty chrome wheels, but for fancy bikes it's better to use bronze wool.

Sometimes you don't need steel or bronze wool at all, and it certainly should not be used anywhere near decals. I prefer to use non abrasive chemical rust removers, and then follow with chrome polish (simichrome is my choice). Take a look at products like Evaporust and Barkeepers Friend.

I see others have answered your previous questions pretty well so I won't repeat.

miyagibike

Hey pcampeau, thanks for your reply - I can't wait to hear about your P13-9's! Sequential serial number is pretty cool - did someone special order a pair? Once I get into the restoration process - either on one of my pair or on one I hope to acquire in a trade, I'm sure I'll be looking for more tips. Also, it looks like one of your earlier posts was right on the money regarding some smaller Paramounts being available that might be too small for folks! Thanks for conjuring up a potential trade!

miyagibike

Thanks for your advice! The actual brand names you provided will make it much easier! You're the second one to warn me about steel wool on chrome - thanks, I'll stick to polish if at all possible and use bronze wool only when I must. It did kinda seem too easy! Thanks again

xiaoman1 

No steel wool on chrome, you will regret it....you will dull the finish, try a good wash to clean off all debris and use the "tin foil" method....google it for rust removal on chrome.
Your bikes do not need a lot to clean them up....best to go slow unless you really know what the outcome will be, often being in a rush to "restore/clean can do more harm than good....as the saying goes better to be safe than sorry....they are only original once and using steel wool on that chrome may not yield the results you are looking for. 0000 or not.
Good Luck, Ben

miyagibike

Hi, Xiaoman1,

Thanks for your sound advice - you are now the third person to warn me about steel wool/bronze wool! Thanks to all for helping not ruin the shiny chrome! LIke I mentioned above I'll be sure to stick to polish, patience and elbow grease! I have heard of but have not used the tin foil method - is that pretty effective? It seems to work on YouTube! Thanks again

xiaoman1 

Miyaibike,
If you use tin foil great you saved the chrome!....as I mentioned above, wash the bike very well to remove debris and wet and turn the foil frequently....rust and bits of chrome can still act as abrasives so clean everything as you progress!
Unless I am mistaken chrome P's were not clear coated but I could be wrong "P" experts should chime in on this....if they were then you will need to remove the C.C. to get to the rust underneath or since the rust is not that bad a good paste wax can keep it a bay.
Best, Ben

Pcampeau

Chrome Paramounts from 71/72 are not clear coated, your correct xiaoman1. For whatever odd reason chrome Schwinn Voyageurs 11.8 were clear coated and it scuffs easily. I was quite relieved that the Paramounts I refurbished didn’t have this problem.